Hi,

illegal yes I know but has anyone tried red diesel, nearly half the price of regular diesel and with a garage selling it 5 miles from my house hmm tempting!!

One of my work colleagues admits to using it in his 206 and claims the engine runs sweet having covered a mere 150k.

Would be interested to hear of any other experiences or horror stories!

I am running an 01' passat tdi pd130 with remap, not sure how the pd would cope if I went down that route.....

 

Cheers

Daz 

 

It's no V-Power mate. Meant for farmers and industrial machinery etc. (as far as my understanding goes)

Nothing more than average I would guess. be careful though - it stains all your fuel lines, filters, all sorts. Its detectable forever once you've used it - its basically tax evasion so expect a decent punishment if you get caught.

I wouldn't dare use it on a PD engine - especially a remapped one.

i used to use it in my corsa for a while & had no problems...BUT a friend of mine ran it in is  new merc for a month and the lift pump packed in so he rang the local merc dealers thinking he would get it done under warranty,whhen they stripped the engine down and found red diesel in thier he voided is warranty and had to pay £2500 to get it fixed.....

                       on modern diesel it is best not to use it as red  or green  diesel hasn't got the lubricant in as white diesel

IFyou get caught with it in your car they can fine you all the way back when you got the car ie the mileage to what ever it reads now working on the average milage a year...

     IF I WAS YOU DON'T USE IT IN YOUR CAR...YOU NEVER KNOW WHERE THEM VOSA VANS ARE..............

I used it for a while when I was working on building sites but that was in a <sub £500 smokey joe vauxhall astra. I wouldn't put it in anything expensive.

Also heard rumours of big trouble if you get caught with it in the tank (or traces in the tank) such as at scrapyards etc. 

Friend uses it, apparently it gives the same feel and mpg as normal diesel,    and un-suprizingly it's less powerful feeling than shell Vpower diesel.. 

In my opinion not worth the risk, if caught you will get done big time.!!! 

500 pound fine if your caught over here in NI, I know loads of people using it for years so they have saved well over the 500 pound fine if they where to get caught

The alternative is vegtable oil, as said above, its no v-power but will do the job fine. Prob best to ask around though cuz i dont know what the risk is damage wise using veggie stuff but ive not heard any horror stories.

if its only a 500quid fine then id say its worth it.

Strange but true.

The only difference between regular diesel and red diesel is................

RED DYE

This is so the government bodies can confirm if your using the correct fuel of whether your using fuel that has had over half the tax taken off of it to help out the nations farmers.

The red dye stains all the components over time and even if its not it your vehicle at the time they can compound it and do a strip check, and yes you get a very heavy fine.

I know farmers that fit a second tank to thier landies just in case they get a spot check tank dip.

Risk it if you want, but if your caught expect to fork out heavily because tax breaks are only in your imagination!

its not worth the risk, i live in a farming area and my dad used a to be farmer. few people have got into big trouble round hear a few years back.  The red dye is in your tank for ages, and if they pick up on the tiniest of traces they will have you for it.

best thing would do is to buy a small tractor...

Not MOT on it

I'm 99% sure road tax is free

Can run it on red diesel legally

lots of torque

ok there are some bad sides

30mph tops

parking may be an issue

 

Ok,

 

Generall conscensous is to avoid like the plague then, thanks for the replies think I will stick to vpower until another cheaper legal proven solution comes along!

 

Veggy oil hmmm, I shall have to look into that!

Daz 

daza747:

Ok,

 

Generall conscensous is to avoid like the plague then, thanks for the replies think I will stick to vpower until another cheaper legal proven solution comes along!

 

Veggy oil hmmm, I shall have to look into that!

Daz 

Veggy oil in a pd is not a recomended either (sorry if yours is not a pd but I've not read the full thread)

it's not good for the injectors aparently.

greg

Is there not someone currently on the forum using vegtable oil, im sure i read a post not that long ago? Not sure what model he was using it in though mind you

Pretty sure I read that they can do you for veggie oil too, unless you're paying fuel duty on it. Easier to spot too, as it makes your car stink from behind like a chip shop!

Yes you pay no duty on a tractor the tax disc is just like normal but reads £nil. You cannot just drive a tractor round the streets on red diesel either. There is a milage limit.

Having worked for a fuel oil company for years I can tell you that the difference between DERV (road fuel) and Red Diesel is that RD has dye in it but also has less lubricants, and no additives or other detergents added. The reason being cost. Oil companies don't waste their additive packages on fuel which is in the main going to be burned in industrial heating systems, and a small percent used in agriculture.

And being caught with it (or traces of it) in your tank will mean HMRC will take your arse out with the unpaid duty on the fuel they believe you've used, and the cost of the car isn't really relevant, nor is the fact that you don't get it back. Your vehicle is siezed and forfeited, but you can apply through the Courts to have it returned if you choose. If you get caught with red diesel in your tank, you've committed a criminal offence (tax evasion) and will be prosecuted if the need arises. They can claim duty on fuel for up to 7 years previous and the onus is on you to prove otherwise. Bear this in mind aswell..."If your conduct involves dishonesty, a penalty of up to 100% of the duty evaded may be imposed."

So, you risk losing your vehicle (as in not getting it back), a penalty of £250 for each offence (so that would be each time you drove the vehicle will red diesel in it), repayment of the unpaid duty, a fine equal to the unpaid duty, an unlimited fine and a stay in jail for up to 2 years if you decide to obstruct the officer inspecting your fuel, and finally "In the more serious cases involving dishonesty criminal action may be taken, and you can be fined an unlimited amount or you may be imprisoned for up to seven years, or both."

Worth noting aswell that all (agricultural vehicles aside) DVLA-licensed vehicles must always use fully duty paid fuel, both on and off public roads. So if it has a tax disk on it and has red diesel in it, you're committing an offence, regardless of what you're doing with the vehicle.

As an example....  they take a reasonable guess as to how much diesel you've not paid duty on. Reasonable to them, mind. Might have no bearing on how much you've actually used. If your 3 year old vehicle has 100k miles on it, and you've had it from new, then they could reasonably argue that you owed duty on all the fuel you used in those 3 years to cover 100k miles.

That works out at eg.: 40mpg = 2500 gallons = 11350ltrs @ ~65p duty per ltr. Which works out at £7377.50

Of course, you'd have to prove otherwise if you could.

thirty3:

Yes you pay no duty on a tractor the tax disc is just like normal but reads £nil. You cannot just drive a tractor round the streets on red diesel either. There is a milage limit.

nah, tractors work in hours and don't have a milometer.  but yeh not really possible to drive a tractor around although i did watch a program with someone one a isle doing it

There's a limit to how far from your property you can drive, that's what he means. For instance a farmer can drive all round the roads local to his farm, but can't feck off to the seaside for a weekend away. I can't recall the actual miles radius allowed though.

Rustynuts:

Having worked for a fuel oil company for years I can tell you that the difference between DERV (road fuel) and Red Diesel is that RD has dye in it but also has less lubricants, and no additives or other detergents added. The reason being cost. Oil companies don't waste their additive packages on fuel which is in the main going to be burned in industrial heating systems, and a small percent used in agriculture.

And being caught with it (or traces of it) in your tank will mean HMRC will take your arse out with the unpaid duty on the fuel they believe you've used, and the cost of the car isn't really relevant, nor is the fact that you don't get it back. Your vehicle is siezed and forfeited, but you can apply through the Courts to have it returned if you choose. If you get caught with red diesel in your tank, you've committed a criminal offence (tax evasion) and will be prosecuted if the need arises. They can claim duty on fuel for up to 7 years previous and the onus is on you to prove otherwise. Bear this in mind aswell..."If your conduct involves dishonesty, a penalty of up to 100% of the duty evaded may be imposed."

So, you risk losing your vehicle (as in not getting it back), a penalty of £250 for each offence (so that would be each time you drove the vehicle will red diesel in it), repayment of the unpaid duty, a fine equal to the unpaid duty, an unlimited fine and a stay in jail for up to 2 years if you decide to obstruct the officer inspecting your fuel, and finally "In the more serious cases involving dishonesty criminal action may be taken, and you can be fined an unlimited amount or you may be imprisoned for up to seven years, or both."

Worth noting aswell that all (agricultural vehicles aside) DVLA-licensed vehicles must always use fully duty paid fuel, both on and off public roads. So if it has a tax disk on it and has red diesel in it, you're committing an offence, regardless of what you're doing with the vehicle.

As an example....  they take a reasonable guess as to how much diesel you've not paid duty on. Reasonable to them, mind. Might have no bearing on how much you've actually used. If your 3 year old vehicle has 100k miles on it, and you've had it from new, then they could reasonably argue that you owed duty on all the fuel you used in those 3 years to cover 100k miles.

That works out at eg.: 40mpg = 2500 gallons = 11350ltrs @ ~65p duty per ltr. Which works out at £7377.50

Of course, you'd have to prove otherwise if you could.

Wow how many people think its worth the risk now.???  

I know a lot of people that have used red for years with no negative effects and saved a fortune.

4/5 years ago red was 18p/litre!!! Personally I applaud anyone who uses it as the goverment is robbing the rest of us blind with duty. Red prices is what everyone would pay were it not for our greedy goverment.

It does depend on your vehicle though and generally the more high tech engines (eg PD) will not run well on red.

I have heard a lot of rumours that is will not be available much longer and one of my boating friends told that he recently recieved a letter to this effect.  

Red diesel is no longer going to be available for marine use, you are correct. But just see what happens if the government tries to tax all fuel for agricultural use aswell. They may increase the duty but they'll never get away with full duty, because it's mainly used as heating oil not diesel fuel.

Rustynuts:

Red diesel is no longer going to be available for marine use, you are correct. But just see what happens if the government tries to tax all fuel for agricultural use aswell. They may increase the duty but they'll never get away with full duty, because it's mainly used as heating oil not diesel fuel.

It has been suggested that only white diesel will be available and farmers will get a rebate based on their current usuage or simply purchase clear diesel and provide invoices which will result in a tax rebate dependant on their useage.

This approach eliminates duty evasion with people illegally using red in their road vehicles and lets genuine farmers have low cost fuel for their useage

The only flaw is that unscrupulous farmers could sell on low cost fuel to Joe Average and still make a very healthy profit.

I am also unsure why anyone would use red diesel costing 50ish pence a litre as a heating oil when parrafin is available for 40ish pence. My Kranzle hot power washer will run on either but I was strongly advised never to use red diesel as it was "dirty" and parrafin was vastly superior, not to mention cheaper. 

Red diesel has a higher calorific value than kerosene (paraffin isn't used as heating fuel except by the very rich who like their Aga to run as sweetly as possible) and is used in commercial heating systems, boilers, and warm air units because of this. Yes it costs more, but you burn less of it and get a hotter burn with a smaller flame. If you take your car to a body repair shop, the heater in the workshop will doubtless be gas oil fired and the spraybake oven will also burn gas oil. Kerosene doesn't get the oven up to heat properly.