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FAN PROBLEM - POLL SYNOPSIS


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#61 Maki

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Posted 01 November 2006 - 01:18 PM

A new problem this! We have had our V6 4 Motion since May and the fans have been faultless, I check them weekly. However tonight I noticed they were not running when I got home. I thought that's it they are knackered. I thought I'll do a little test, I switched the Auto to on ( where it always is ) and started the engine again... No fans, I then switched the recirculate button ( the arrow ) on, the fans then kicked in and ran as normal, no problem, switched the recirculate off and they ran as they should.


I then went in had my tea and read the thread again and went back out. I then started the car and presto the fans kicked in just as they should. I then stopped  the car, and then restarted it and guess what no fans! Press the recirculate button on they come, switch the reciculate off and the fans stay on, no problem.


Are my fans shot or is this an electrical gremlin, ie, bad connection? The car is under warranty and is going to go back and no mistake, but I just need some ammo to throw at them.




#62 CoolHands

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Posted 02 November 2006 - 08:18 AM

Could be the resistor in the process of breaking down? Another few months and it'll be kaput completly

#63 Desi Audi

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Posted 14 November 2006 - 11:57 AM

Does this problem effect   Aum  1.8 t & is the fix still available to buy ?


 


 


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#64 Golf V5

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Posted 05 January 2007 - 12:57 PM

Well mine whent 240.00 to get fixed

Life is only what you make it

Make it VW


#65 aje

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Posted 05 January 2007 - 02:01 PM

After reading this, its confirmed that my resistors too have failed. Two Veg!!!!!!!!!!!


I hate doing electrical work, particularly on the car, but the thought of paying over 400 quid (which I dont have) for a new part thats no better than the original really annoys me. Does anyone think I should try the stealers, (warranty ran out in october, before I bought the car) or just get on with my soldering!!!!!!!!!!



#66 arin

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Posted 05 January 2007 - 07:33 PM

can someone help explain this , i am extremely confused.. what fans are we talking about? - the ones under the bonnet or in the car? and ive turned econ off but how do i turn aircon on?


liek this?


Open the bonnet.
Start the engine, 
set the climate to AUTO
set the temperature to LOW

This will force the aircon compressor to come on.

As soon as u have done this, the fans will both start spinning CONSTANTLY (at a lowish speed).   - If the fans spin then everything is okay.


You only have a problem if the fans spin, then stop, spin, then stop etc...  It's this 'Pulsing' that is incorrect, and indicative of faulty fans.  If it does this then u must ask them to replace the fans!!

The fans should NOT come on and off, THEY SHOULD CONSTANTLY SPIN until u turn the aircon OFF (ie ECON), in which case they will stop spinning!



#67 Kev 4motion

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Posted 05 January 2007 - 08:31 PM

These are the Fans under the bonnet .  When Econ  is ON you are NOT using aircon .   If on  'Auto'  the aircon  will / should  keep the car at set temp, on normal  aircon  setting ( ie , if you press the button for the windscreen )  none will be shown on display    ie  Econ  / Auto will be blank     BUT  fans should be running ( slow speed ) .. as a general guide , if Econ is NOT displayed  .. aircon is or should be working so fans shoud be working.


 You won't notice in this cold weather but as the weather warms up .. if you have a prob then you will notice that your fans will keep coming on at Full speed intermittently , this should not happen ...  if fans are working properly they will come on at a lower engine temp and at the low speed , this is enough to keep the engine cool except for Extreme conditions .


 



#68 arin

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Posted 05 January 2007 - 08:34 PM

only got the 3 month warranty with vw, would like to diagnose it now incase it is buggered.... so what does econ mean?? what does it do??

#69 Green V5

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Posted 05 January 2007 - 10:02 PM

only got the 3 month warranty with vw, would like to diagnose it now incase it is buggered.... so what does econ mean?? what does it do??


Econ means economy = aircon off.  To do the test you need the aircon on.  Just press auto and lower temperature.  If the radiator fans spin constantly then you're ok.  It's that simple really.



#70 aje

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 06:55 AM

After reading this, its confirmed that my resistors too have failed. Two Veg!!!!!!!!!!!


I hate doing electrical work, particularly on the car, but the thought of paying over 400 quid (which I dont have) for a new part thats no better than the original really annoys me. Does anyone think I should try the stealers, (warranty ran out in october, before I bought the car) or just get on with my soldering!!!!!!!!!!



 


After some more reading, and further investigation. I have notice that the big fan has a green dot on it. But the small one has not!!!!! Just got a few more things to check, but its not looking promising[:'(]


 Next thing is Farnell have a minimum order of 20 quid. I only want to spend 8[:@]



#71 BigAl

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 12:36 PM


After reading this, its confirmed that my resistors too have failed. Two Veg!!!!!!!!!!!

I hate doing electrical work, particularly on the car, but the thought of paying over 400 quid (which I dont have) for a new part thats no better than the original really annoys me. Does anyone think I should try the stealers, (warranty ran out in october, before I bought the car) or just get on with my soldering!!!!!!!!!!

 

After some more reading, and further investigation. I have notice that the big fan has a green dot on it. But the small one has not!!!!! Just got a few more things to check, but its not looking promising[:'(]

 Next thing is Farnell have a minimum order of 20 quid. I only want to spend 8[:@]

Both Farnell and RS have recently introduced a minimum order cost, it might be worth trying CPC http://cpc.farnell.com (part number RE03528 or RE01724).

CPC, although part of Farnell, are less trade orientated.

 



#72 aje

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 02:39 PM

Both Farnell and RS have recently introduced a minimum order cost, it might be worth trying CPC http://cpc.farnell.com (part number RE03528 or RE01724).


CPC, although part of Farnell, are less trade orientated.


 



 


Thanks Al, much appreciated!!



#73 arin

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Posted 18 January 2007 - 11:41 AM

ok so i tryed this, my cooling fans dont fluctuate up and down, however when i set temp to LO on my climatronic the auto goes off and my fans go fast, then a little slower then bk up 2 fast ( fans in car ie i can hear them doing it) the screen on the tronic doesnt change to show they are going up and down tho?? someone help

#74 Green V5

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Posted 21 January 2007 - 12:09 PM

Matt is now taking orders for complete fan fix kits:


http://uk-mkivs.net/...ead/789259.aspx


I'm taking the first one so there're 12 left!



#75 graeme86

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Posted 25 January 2007 - 07:13 PM


A series resistor is a pretty sucky way to control the speed
of an electric motor! You would have expected better from
VW in the 21st century.


Using the figures from BIGAL, we have about 80 Watts of heat
dissipation in the resistors. That is 80 J/s.


Assuming a petrol energy content of 35 MJ/lt and a 20% overall
efficiency of converting that to electrical energy at the alternator
output, we have a wastage of about a litre of petrol for every
24 hours of engine running time.


If this doesn't sound much, just take a chronometer with you for
a week and keep it running for as long as the engine is running.
You might be suprised. The figure will be way above what you
might think.


The best way for VW to fix this would be to replace the
fan control unit with a unit that uses power electronics to
control the fan speed. These work with minimal heat dissipation,
are simple to make (your washing machine motor is probably a
DC motor whose speed is controlled like this) and could
be used to vary the fan speed in an infinitely continuous
manner rather than the three speeds of off/slow/fast.


Most importantly, it could still work on cars with
burnt-out fan resistors, because it would use the main
input, bypassing the resistor.


Do I see VW doing anything about it? Hahaha.


I'm sure I can come up with such a design, but it would
have to be externally mounted similarly to the external
resistors. Still, much more efficient.




Excelent response... I could not design the circuit but would be able to build and test it ... tell me what you need and lets see if we could move this along a bit....

There was a Swede who cam on here and he hacked the speed controller from an RS4 to control his fans though we nevere got part nos of him

Cheers


 


Any more info on this "factory" solution?


Edit: here are the teasers but no more info:


http://uk-mkivs.net/...ead/259062.aspx


http://uk-mkivs.net/...ead/448382.aspx


 


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#76 Jonesy GT

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Posted 15 April 2007 - 06:22 PM

are the fan problems restricted to golfs/boras or passats with climate control aswell????  i know the cars with ac dont have the problem

 

This fault also affects manual AC my fans are pulsing when i turn the air con on in my golf, the 40a fuse had blown



#77 tamemin

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Posted 19 May 2007 - 03:54 AM

My PD150 has the same problem of burned resistors.

I was looking for a smaller solution to the large heatsink and resistor pack, and found this PWM motor controller (12v) on Mapin site for 15 quid.

 http://www.maplin.co...or PWM&doy=19m5

Only problem is, it's rated at 3A which may not be enough to turn the fans. I'll take a look, and if it turns out to under powered, I'll make on myself.

 

Tam


 



#78 CoolHands

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Posted 19 May 2007 - 04:11 AM

I know nothing about it, but is this any good then?

PWM Controller,MAX797ESE SO16:
http://rswww.com/cgi...ll&Ntt=540-4283

 



#79 graeme86

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Posted 19 May 2007 - 06:47 AM

Just another idea, SPAL sell a PWM Fan Controller for their automotive fans:


http://www.a1electri...pal/faninfo.htm


It would be nice if VW bought out their own retrofit controller for the Mark IV!


They must have learned their lesson as the new Mark V Jettas and Golfs have a PWM fan controller - they even make a point of mentioning it in their released spec sheets (see under Cooling System):


http://www.volksblog...ail-tech-specs/


 


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#80 tamemin

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Posted 01 June 2007 - 06:10 PM

Hi,



 
I have started work on a PWM controller to run
both the fans at the same time in my PD150.


My first prototype used an astable multivibrator
set at 30% driving a TIP147 power transistor. That ran really well
for about 5 seconds then died. The 147 was only rated at 10A, so no
suprise there. I think both motors running in parallel pull something
like 30A, can't be sure as my multimeter only goes up to 10A.




I have build a second prototype, and spent much of
this afternoon testing and adjusting it on the car. This uses one
(or 2) P-Type MOSFETs, capable of 80A or 320A peak. These devices
have got to be indestructible, because earlier; I was testing with
just one, and the heatsink came loose whilst it was running. It had
become so hot that the tin coating coating on the back of the device
actually bubbled off, yet it still works now!


 




I can adjust the speed from crawl to half of full
power (due to the way the timer circuit works). Somewhere in the
middle gave good airflow with little noise.
What I have noticed though, is that you still need
some heatsinking for the MOSFET (s) I was really hoping to make it
all fit in a small plastic box without any metal in sight. I estimate
that the 'FETs burn around 10W as heat. Could be less, as the
heatsink I was using is ridiculously small.

Tam

 



 

 



#81 antera309

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Posted 04 June 2007 - 05:29 PM

I have a 2003 mk4 R32 with the fan problem as described in this thread.  Manufacturer warranty is dead & buried, so I'm gonna have to fix this one myself.


Is there a current supplier for the resistor fix kit, pre-built?  Or at least the heatsink...


Is there a DIY guide available anywhere for replacement of the fan units themselves?


 


 


 


 



#82 Dod 1396

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Posted 04 June 2007 - 05:45 PM

Antera, I had this problem with my PD150 Anni.


I had the car in for its service and had VW check the fans they told me it was the fuse blown,which still caused them to pulse intermittently.


I rang VW CC to moan(also my fans didn't have the green dot) VW CC in the end paid 70% of the 400 bill.


I was told at the VW garage that VW UK will pay certain amount of goodwill on the car if it has a full VW service history upto 5 years old.


So its worth a shot at VW CC if youve got the VW service on your R.


Was also told if you pay a contribution towards the repair you are entitled to the 2 year warranty.


Simon


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#83 antera309

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Posted 04 June 2007 - 09:07 PM

Thanks for the reply, Dod 1396.  So do I contact VW CC first?  I'd obviously prefer not to have to front up 400 before finding out whether they will pay 70% or not!


 



#84 Dod 1396

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Posted 05 June 2007 - 02:18 AM

I think you probaly need to get your dealer to diagnose(sp) the problem as VWCC will ring the dealer to check this is the fault.


Ask your dealer if there is any good will as this is a known fault.


The dealer will say that they don't know about this being a known fault,general sucking in through teeth etc.


If no joy through the dealer.


Then ring VWCC explain situation and hope for the best.


When I rang, they checked as above and offered 70%, I snapped there hand off.


How lucky you will be I don't know,but if you don't ask!.


If they say no or % offer is to low keep pushing.


Has your fans gone before when in warrenty?


Let me know how you get on.


Cheers Simon


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#85 NikB

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Posted 05 June 2007 - 02:24 AM

The problem with that is your fans will fail again at some point so you need a more permanent method of fixing them. That's why the fan fix kit has been made.


#86 Dod 1396

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Posted 05 June 2007 - 02:28 AM

Got one for when the VW warranty expires,Just don't know how to fit it yet!


Simon


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#87 NikB

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Posted 05 June 2007 - 02:42 AM

There is a fitting guide somewhere, if you do a search for fan fix kit you should find it.


#88 antera309

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Posted 05 June 2007 - 06:40 AM

If I had owned the car and had it serviced at the same dealer from new, I would give the goodwill thing a try.  But on an out-of-warranty car I've just bought from someone out of the area, I really don't rate my chances.  Besides, even with a 75% discount, I'd still be paying over a hundred quid for a new pair of fans that will just break again.


So.. I'm gonna take the plunge and fit the resistor fix detailed in this thread.  All the stuff has been ordered up.  Fitting doesn't look like it will be too much hassle, although weatherproofing all the exposed wiring & contacts to prevent corrosion (not detailed the guide above) could prove tricky.


I've owned two mk3 VR6s prior to the R32 and on those, the low speed fan resistor is an external component bolted to the inner wing, just like andymac's mk4 fix.  It's a very reliable setup - fan failure on mk3 VRs is almost unheard of, even on 150,000mile+ cars.  Not only that, but the mk3 makes do with just one electric fan, with a slave fan driven off the main one by a belt.  Mk2s & mk3s that have had R32 engine transplants retain this setup and it is perfectly adequate for cooling the engine.


It's obvious that the mk4 dual fan assembly has been given this design "flaw" on purpose to get money out of people for replacements.  It's absolutely diabolical and I'm glad that someone found a way to sidestep their devious little scheme.....



#89 tamemin

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Posted 06 June 2007 - 04:01 PM

I have developed an electronic low-speed control for the fans in my 150 PD GTI. It does not require a massive heatsink, and should be mountable anywhere. Mine is currently behind the headlamp, in that bit of plastic shrouding near the battery.


You don't have to sever any cables either, just connect 3 wires,  2 to the fan controller and one to earth.


If you are interested in a similar product, let me know, and we'll sort something out. 


Regards


 


Tamer


 



#90 NikB

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Posted 06 June 2007 - 04:13 PM

Would be interested to know what's involved. It's good that there are people working on various solutions to this problem. The only issue is with longevity as we don't know how long these fix kits will last. Tamemin if you were to produce more kits would you also post a guide detailing its installation?





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