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PD150/130 Camshaft Problems

90K views 154 replies 75 participants last post by  NeilMal  
#1 ·
Hi All,

Although this is my first post, have been using MKIV's for a long time for advice with various problems and updates with my 150PD Golf. Excellant advice on sorting our my rear wiper and installing cruise control etc. so about time I gave something back.

My recent experience has been through the PD Camshaft problem - something totally unknown to me until 2 weeks ago, in the midst of the Welsh mountains. It sounded like a the big ends had gone so had to dump the car in a local dealer in Criccieth. When they diagnosed it to be a camshaft problem I questioned it seriously - how can it happen so quickly and with catastrophic failure on a part that normally outlasts the engine. Research on MKIV's again pointed that this was a common problem and so after reading the posts where some of you had been offered good-will from Volkswagen, I naturally tried.

There response was typically Volkswagen, 53 Plate, 90k miles and no dealer service history with VW from 60k miles - I didn't stand a chance. So my car is now at Atlas Road Garage, in the kind hands of Jim and Wayne who are putting it back together.

And then I started to think, I talked to Jim again and he said that he was doing 1 or 2 of these a week - that's getting into 100 a year in one garage in the UK so how many of these are done worldwide. I decided to phone Volkswagen Customer Care and once I had persuaded them that I wasn't trying to change their mind about the good-will (although I wanted it), I asked them if this was a commonly reported problem. Much typing later didn't produce much news and I was passed onto the technical bloke who decides who gets the good-will - again he had never heard of the problem on their system. And then it dawned on me, if they don't give the good-will, it isn't logged as a common fault on their computer system. And most of the cars just borderline their 5 year, 100k miles and FSH criteria.

So without become a warrior attacking the giant car manufacturers, I want Volkswagen to admit that they have a design problem with their engine. Luckily I am in engineering and I want to get the shaft and lifters materials tested to see if they are at fault, or is the long life servicing just not working, or does the PD oil not do it's job ?

Volkswagen won't listen or take advice from internet forums, but if we could produce cold hard data - i.e. reg no., miles, FSH, age etc. then maybe we could help protect those whose cars haven't yet been affected and help them get replacement parts free. So can we organise something and get VW to admit they have a problem ? If we can hear from VW fitters, independant, owners or anyone else, it would be great.

And for those who are wondering, my symtoms were a week before, sounded like tappets on start up and the engine was beginning to produce smoke on acceleration. Apparantly, the lifters have gone so badly, it has worn a hole through the top, and it is blowing through the inlet !

Cheers.
 
#2 ·
Good thinking - but why is it that if all the PD engines are inherantly the same (100 / 115 / 130 / 150) why is it that it's only the 150 that suffers? It would be useful to catalogue the build dates/VIN numbers to see when VW actually recognised the problem and rectified it thereby admitting there was a problem at least!
 
#4 ·
Top marks Hodgey for trying to get something back on our behalf from VW. It isn't really relevant to the cause, however, my 150 PD was registered March 03 (03 plate) and has covered 59k on long life servicing. I have no camshaft wear symptoms to date.

Trying to get VW to admit to a design problem is laughable. My 1st Mk IV had 3 window regulators replaced. On each occassion, the dealer swore blind I was the first person to ever have this issue. Even though my car was out of warranty on the third ocassion, I wrote to VW UK and they reluctantly agreed to replace it as a good will gesture as my car had full VW service history. When it happened on my current Mk IV, my local dealer said it was there was virtually no call for regulator repair kits as they were very reliable !!
 
#6 ·
I have an 02 golf pd 150 with 90k on the clock without full vw service history but with a backstreet service history so maybe dodgey and i had occasional misfire which would clear after a few mins hot and cold engine, now the misfire is constant, smoke under acceleration, alot of judder, loss of power and a knocking noise from the engine, VW diagnosis is the camshaft and followers, quoted ÂŁ1190 to fix, i was sure it was a fuel or injector problem because it was intermitant at first and redex seemed to help for a tank of diesel. oh well lesson learned, VW service all the way me thinks.
 
#8 ·
My PD150 has covered 138k,i've owned it for a week now and have been reading some of the horror stories on here and the vw audi forum.Mine has a full VW history and the correct oil has been used throughout it's entire 138k.It's due a service and am taking it to a VW specialist in Marks tey,essex,where i live and they have had a few 150's but say so long as the longlife quantum oil or equivalent is used then should be no probs.I have no invoices for my car apart from the stamps in the book so have no idea if it's had cam failure,turbo failure etc etc.I will speak to the guys who are going to service it and see if they do a lot of cam work on the PD 115/130 and 150.Seems sahme that so many of you are suffering from this as the 150 is a great car and goes well.May be it is inferior materials used??

Mine is a 51 plate,2002 model.

Will update this post when i have had the service done.

Have you chaps had turbo probs??
 
#9 ·
I have an 02 golf pd 150 with 90k on the clock without full vw service history but with a backstreet service history so maybe dodgey and i had occasional misfire which would clear after a few mins hot and cold engine, now the misfire is constant, smoke under acceleration, alot of judder, loss of power and a knocking noise from the engine, VW diagnosis is the camshaft and followers, quoted ÂŁ1190 to fix, i was sure it was a fuel or injector problem because it was intermitant at first and redex seemed to help for a tank of diesel. oh well lesson learned, VW service all the way me thinks.
Luke - don't rely solely on a VW main dealer diagnosis. Firstly, some of them aren't as good at fault diagnosis as they should be, and secondly, if they're short of customers, some will happily extract as much money as they can from you.

Definitely get at least one more opinion / quote from an independent VW specialist or trusted local garage, before spending you're hard earned cash with a main dealer.
 
#10 ·
My PD150 has covered 138k,i've owned it for a week now and have been reading some of the horror stories on here and the vw audi forum.Mine has a full VW history and the correct oil has been used throughout it's entire 138k.It's due a service and am taking it to a VW specialist in Marks tey,essex,where i live and they have had a few 150's but say so long as the longlife quantum oil or equivalent is used then should be no probs.I have no invoices for my car apart from the stamps in the book so have no idea if it's had cam failure,turbo failure etc etc.I will speak to the guys who are going to service it and see if they do a lot of cam work on the PD 115/130 and 150.Seems sahme that so many of you are suffering from this as the 150 is a great car and goes well.May be it is inferior materials used??

Mine is a 51 plate,2002 model.

Will update this post when i have had the service done.

Have you chaps had turbo probs??
It has been mentioned on previous threads that there was supposed to have been a batch of poorly manufactured camshafts fitted to PD 150's in 2002. However, I don't know if there is any substance to this rumour.

Although my car (03 plate) has covered a lowish 59k, I've not had any problems with it in nearly 3 years of ownership, apart from having to replace the cooling fans (very common), and a window regulator (also very common).

As mentioned above, using the correct oil is critical. When your car is serviced do you know if the garage has used the correct oil ? It has always intrigued me that some 'quick fit' type garages can change your oil and filter for you for around ÂŁ25. You can't do it yourself for under ÂŁ40 ? They might buy oil a lot cheaper than the retail price we have to pay, however, I doubt it is Quantum or equivalent spec recommended oil they use.
 
#11 ·
[:)] The garage i'm taking mine to have been servicing all types of VW's for 30 years and have told me they only use quantum longlife oil in the PD engines,this makes me feel a bit better knowing it will be serviced properly.After this service is done the oil will be dropped every 6k to be on the safe side.Hope the camshaft lasts throughout my ownership!
 
#12 ·
im just a partsman that has worked in VW mainstealers for 8 years (off and on) PD engines are very good engines but as this thread mentions there is a "camshaft" issue!

the thing is its not the camshaft that is the problem, its the hydraulic tappits (or buckets if you like) the factory ones are a weak point in the engine and these were revised in november 2005. The original ones straight out the factory were chrome topped, the new revised ones are black in colour and apparantly they are "baked" longer and with that they are strengthened!

Posted Image


the actual fault is the buckets wear on the top, causing them to bow out on the lobes of the camshaft, which in turn then wears the lobes and causes all the faults described. The worst case scenario is that the camshaft will snap and in this case the head will not be servicable (these are around ÂŁ1500 + vat from stealer)

with me knowing this i replaced the tappits around about 12k ago (around 130k) camshaft was inspected and did not show any signs of wear and only one of my buckets were showing the slightest part of being worn.

but........................

i now think my cam is on its way out, ive got a sneaky feeling im losing power, slight missfire when cold and then goes away when engine warms up so my so called "cheaper" fix is now not good enough by the look! [:mad:]

PLEASE NOTE

this is my opinion based on what i have dealt with whilst working for VW, none of this is gospel and im am not a technician!! im am just a have a go hero and this is my 2 pence worth
 
#14 ·
Got my golf back yesterday after having the camshaft and followers changed and it feels like driving a new car, no vibrations, feels like it has more power than before even when the car did not seem to be misfiring and seems a heck of alot smoother and responsive. i don't know if its a physiological feeling i'm getting because i just spent over a grand on getting it sorted but it makes me happy [:D] i did manage to get my old camshaft and buckets back from the stealership without any surcharge and to be fair it is f**ked on one of the lobes and the others are showing some wear have not really looked at the buckets yet but if anybody wants any pictures i'll post them on here. thanks for the advice from everybody but i deperately needed my car for today and there was a load of hassle getting it moved from VW to an independant specialist so just paid VW to do it, at least i get the 2 years warrenty with it eh.
 
#15 ·
My old 2002 pd 150 had camshaft at 105k. Its nothing to do with oil as used correct pd oil changed every 10,000m. When removed lobes were completely worn. There are 2 theories. First is soft material on 02 batch cams. Second is high pd pressure.

VW garage I know were repairing car a week couple years back for this prob

Pete
 
#19 ·
Hi All,

Sorry not to be in touch for the last week. However, I have my car back and it is a lot better - the power is smoother and more of it and obviously it doesn't make the horrible rattling noise. I have the old camshaft and buckets and so will try to post some photots - it is the buckets which seem to be the main problem and certainly understandable why it was blowing back through the inlet - there's a hole stright through one of them.

I am going to continue my battle with VW though. S99dub and other stealer comments are certainly helpful although I expect you won't want to 'reveal' yourself to VW as could get you in all sorts of trouble.

Will be in touch - oh and just for information, James or Wayne at Riverside Motors in Darwen are the lads who did mine - 1 or 2 of these a week and know their onions - and worth them taking it all the way from North Wales to have it done !

Cheers.
 
#21 ·
My old 2002 pd 150 had camshaft at 105k. Its nothing to do with oil as used correct pd oil changed every 10,000m. When removed lobes were completely worn. There are 2 theories. First is soft material on 02 batch cams. Second is high pd pressure.

VW garage I know were repairing car a week couple years back for this prob

Pete
Looking at the pics in the link to Freds TDI page, it's the buckets for the valves which have failed. The lobes for the PD injectors look fine, the reason for the higher oil spec was due to the high load on the PD lobes. Therefore it looks more like a bad batch of buckets because if it was a bad cam or wrong oil being used the PD lobes should have failed first. Would be good to see the pics of Hodgey cam failure.
 
#23 ·
Had my service done on saturday and all was ok apart from a broken spring at the back,worn axle bushes,worn front wishbone bushes.

Oil was changed and 5w 40 oil was used according to VW specs.Car goes much better now.All the filters were changed and a VAGCOM check was done incase of fault codes and none present.Asked about camshaft and mechanic said car sounded fine and drove very well for 139k.

So am well pleased!

Can anyone recommend parts from german swedish and french or shall i use VW genuine bits for the replacement parts i need to get for my car???
 
#24 ·
Don't all the following engines use the same camshaft part numer 038109101R:

ATD,AXR,AJM, AUY,ASZ,ARL if so they must have used the same batch of followers is all these

If so why are failures not being seen in the other engines than 130(ASZ) / 150(ARL)?
They are being seen the only problem is they are probably not being reported as the majority of people that come on here drive ASZ/ARL's and drive them enthusicaly hence higher stresses or they are remaped etc.
 
#25 ·
Hi Guys,

Tried to post photos but have them in my gallery but can't get them further - if anyone has some advice them I will put them up.

However, have another for you......since the car was mended, in the morning it has taken a bit longer for the car to start. Normally, it would be literally straight away, no about 5 or 6 turns before it goes. Once going all is fine. I know its been colder these days but still strange compared to before the camshaft replacement.

HOWEVER, it is now getting much worse. Parked in car park a couple of days ago and went shopping and came back to car. Started fine and then set off when it just died, tried to restarted and cranked for ages - 15 seconds then started just - sounding like fuel starvation. Got going and did it again, so cranked, eventually started. Did this about 4 or 5 times so just lent on the right pedal while getting out the car park and drove hard - suddenly all fine.

All has been fine and now its done it again. Stopped and wouldn't start for ages, then got going so just rev'd it and got home.

Any ideas - current thoughts are Fuel Filter or Tandem Pump - the car was serviced when it had the camshaft done and so possibly loose pipe on filter and I think the Tandem Pump is removed off the end of the cam so could be problem there ?

Any thought would be great - not happy in a unreliable car all of sudden !

Cheers.
 
#26 ·
Don't all the following engines use the same camshaft part numer 038109101R:

ATD,AXR,AJM, AUY,ASZ,ARL if so they must have used the same batch of followers is all these
that is correct, but it is now used in the later 1.9 tdi engines such as BKC, BXE but theses are lower powered so they have obviously realised that this is not a system to be used in the higher powered tdi's.

but the revised followers are also used!