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DYNO DAY @ PDtuning 18th



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#31 gtimk4180

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Posted 18 October 2009 - 12:00 PM

 


Thanks to s31teg for organising this, which one were you?


wish I hadnt gone! at least I wasnt the only car that was down 20-30bhp on the day[brick]


black r32 expected 460, achieved 380


blue r32 expected 460 achieved 395


silver a3 expected 200 achieved 175


g60 expected 200 achieved 175


red anni expected 210 achieved 193


pirelli mapped expected 310 achieved 261


map truned off expected 240 achieved 220


borachris' tank 195


silver bora, expected 170 achieved 170 - mapped my pdtuning!


pdtuning offered the low figured people that they would map their cars to get higher results!


I hope this is all down to the big dyno lottery!


I thought it was strange that I got 155 out of my 180 bhp, then 202 with the map turned on, yet my torque figure was 45 lb/ft over what it should be?


I was down the magic 25bhp like most people at least!


 


 




#32 wilkymk4

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Posted 18 October 2009 - 12:06 PM

 ^^^^^^ Like wise,my re-mapped PD100 only made 131,was expecting 140-150,bit disapointed but for only 20quid........


Ill be honest,i had heard bad things bout this place n everyone else left disapointed too.


Highlight of the day was a ride in Richard Shek's turbo'd R32,quick isnt the word,it was EFFIN RAPID and it sounded awsome!! That was worth 20quid on its own! [au]



#33 gtimk4180

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Posted 18 October 2009 - 12:20 PM

 yep, second that, wouldnt mind one of those myself, turbo kit cost him 14grand plus 3 weeks labour!



#34 borachris

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Posted 18 October 2009 - 01:22 PM

 borachris' tank 195

Tanks the right word Dom, it'll blow your teeny tiny 202bhp away when its mapped properly[:DD]

In all seriousness though the figures do seem a little low, I think I was the only one that was actually happy with the figures achieved, saying that I was expecting a bit more torque than the 312lbs it got.

Although if this magic missing 25bhp was applied to mine that would take it up to 220.5bhp[8-)]



#35 borachris

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Posted 18 October 2009 - 01:23 PM

Ill be honest,i had heard bad things bout this place n everyone else left disapointed too.

I didn't[:D]

Nice to meet you Lee.

Good to meet some other new faces too[Y]



#36 Jecht

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Posted 18 October 2009 - 01:39 PM

pdtuning offered the low figured people that they would map their cars to get higher results!

I hope this is all down to the big dyno lottery!

i went but after i hear that they where saying this and ppl where getting low ball figures, i left! wasnt just me, was talking to 3 other ppl when we heard somone say that something was abit iffy and we all chose to leave rather than try and saying no to this mapping they offered, i know it was only afew ££ but if they where truely trying to scam the hell out of ppl it means ANY data from the rolling road session was useless and would of just been an engine thrass for no reason other than them trying to get more customers .. i truely hope this is not true and it was either a dyno mis calibration error or just simply ppl over evaluating there power output .. but either way you look at it, something was not right there.



#37 gtimk4180

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Posted 18 October 2009 - 01:40 PM

 borachris' tank 195

Tanks the right word Dom, it'll blow your teeny tiny 202bhp away when its mapped properlyChuckle

In all seriousness though the figures do seem a little low, I think I was the only one that was actually happy with the figures achieved, saying that I was expecting a bit more torque than the 312lbs it got.

Although if this magic missing 25bhp was applied to mine that would take it up to 220.5bhpConfused

You were the only that left happy!

even my teeny tiny 1.8T made 275lbs of torque!



#38 wilkymk4

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Posted 18 October 2009 - 02:13 PM

Ill be honest,i had heard bad things bout this place n everyone else left disapointed too.

I didn'tBig Smile

Nice to meet you Lee.

Good to meet some other new faces tooYes

Yeah,was good to meet you too mate,always good to put faces to names,ill deff give you a shout when its time to try my Porkas on,ill see ya before then tho no doubt,ill be down Rays shortly to sort afew bits n pieces.

Must admit mate,i was fairly happy with my 255 ft/lbs!! Diesels are great [;)]



#39 borachris

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Posted 18 October 2009 - 02:27 PM

lol, I realised that Dom


Will escaped again hey............


 


Lee, don't start about diesels being great, you know how touchy these petrol boys can get[:P]



 



#40 gtimk4180

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Posted 18 October 2009 - 02:35 PM

Ill be honest,i had heard bad things bout this place n everyone else left disapointed too.

I didn'tBig Smile

Nice to meet you Lee.

Good to meet some other new faces tooYes

Yeah,was good to meet you too mate,always good to put faces to names,ill deff give you a shout when its time to try my Porkas on,ill see ya before then tho no doubt,ill be down Rays shortly to sort afew bits n pieces.

Must admit mate,i was fairly happy with my 255 ft/lbs!! Diesels are great Wink

tut tut, only 255[:P] even a petrol can get that! only joking.

Will probably lowered it especially for the day, strapped some metal bar to the chassis and let all the air out of his tyres!



#41 wilkymk4

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Posted 18 October 2009 - 02:43 PM

Is Will the lad with the sexyful track black mk4,black Porka twists?


Has he got a biult thread on here? I wanna see more of that,its gorgeous [In-love]



#42 borachris

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Posted 18 October 2009 - 02:52 PM

Too be honest I didn't think it would even get onto the rollers without the sills bottoming out on the top of the ramp!


Yes thats him Lee, he's got a thread on ED38 i'll have a look and PM you a link.



#43 s31teg

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 12:00 PM

nice to meet some old and new members.

Cheers S32teg for arranging it, nice to meet you again. 

I'll bring the laptop at the Teesside meet, also anyone else wanting autowindows or miles to empty enabling I can do it then.

 

 

no problem ray



#44 s31teg

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 12:05 PM

 

Thanks to s31teg for organising this, which one were you?

wish I hadnt gone! at least I wasnt the only car that was down 20-30bhp on the dayBang Head

black r32 expected 460, achieved 380

blue r32 expected 460 achieved 395

silver a3 expected 200 achieved 175

g60 expected 200 achieved 175

red anni expected 210 achieved 193

pirelli mapped expected 310 achieved 261

map truned off expected 240 achieved 220

borachris' tank 195

silver bora, expected 170 achieved 170 - mapped my pdtuning!

pdtuning offered the low figured people that they would map their cars to get higher results!

I hope this is all down to the big dyno lottery!

I thought it was strange that I got 155 out of my 180 bhp, then 202 with the map turned on, yet my torque figure was 45 lb/ft over what it should be?

I was down the magic 25bhp like most people at least!

i was in the grey hoody, in some of the cars on the roller, and had the van on if you stayed long enough

meh i even lost 3hp with my VPOWER :P damm them adverts!!!

 

black r32 been there loads before, that was down to him erm loosing his turbo housing boost screw i would of though

 

also the standard toledo 110bhp produce 111bhp

 

you can only truly compare figures with another dyno dynamics set of rollers, these are possibly the best make to purchase, i would say all figures got on day were true to be honest and i see hundreds of motors on there all the time



#45 s31teg

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 12:07 PM

i know it was only afew ££ but if they where truely trying to scam the hell out of ppl it means ANY data from the rolling road session was useless and would of just been an engine thrass for no reason other than them trying to get more customers .. i truely hope this is not true and it was either a dyno mis calibration error or just simply ppl over evaluating there power output .. but either way you look at it, something was not right there.

im pretty sure everyone would be slightly intoxicated off as well, this is not a con, its a honest rolling road day, and i can understand peoples concerns and points but these are REAL LIFE tests not what is read off the label when bought

anyone stay about for the thottle boddied lupo at the end? that was down 20bhp as well but made exact same torque, had a look a previous graft and the curve was identical



#46 Chris.

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 12:12 PM

Hmmm,  It does seem wierd that each car does seem strange each car was 10bhp down. 


Did anyone get any graphs they can post up??


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#47 s31teg

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 12:16 PM

Hmmm,  It does seem wierd that each car does seem strange each car was 10bhp down. 

Did anyone get any graphs they can post up??

10down from where? , copied this from another forum i posted on

as amd use dynojet dyno

google dynojet vs dynosynamics
http://www.google.co.... dyno dynamics

basically dyno dynamics is a 'heatbreaker' of a dyno, it tells the truth

its is recognised as the top dyno for this reason



#48 gtimk4180

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 02:28 PM

 Fair enough then, but as quoted 'You can make a Dyno Dynamics read about any way you want, you can change the correction factor with a simple couple keystrokes. Control-X and pop in a new correction factor on the Dyno Dynamics dyno... bam... done


considering the farse he had with the corsa people he tried to rob, and faced trading standards, and had to change the name of the company, then offering a few of the low cars to come back and he'll sort their map out from them, get two of those people back and he's £800 richer......


the 2 cars that were bang on were the standard car- fancy a remap? and the one he had already mapped,.....



#49 wilkymk4

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 03:26 PM

 Trading standards,Corsa people he tried to rob??!! I hadnt heard that,do tell.


Deff wont be going back there.[8-)]


Mine was down and he did say if i wanted him too sort it he could,asked him how much and he skirted it quite well,never thought about it at the time.................



#50 borachris

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 03:34 PM

Did anyone get any graphs they can post up??

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#51 s31teg

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 05:35 PM

 Fair enough then, but as quoted 'You can make a Dyno Dynamics read about any way you want, you can change the correction factor with a simple couple keystrokes. Control-X and pop in a new correction factor on the Dyno Dynamics dyno... bam... done

considering the farse he had with the corsa people he tried to rob, and faced trading standards, and had to change the name of the company, then offering a few of the low cars to come back and he'll sort their map out from them, get two of those people back and he's £800 richer......

the 2 cars that were bang on were the standard car- fancy a remap? and the one he had already mapped,.....

 

 

another one that had had a look on corsasport, you have to take it with a pinch of salt, as im sure you know people big things up on forums and slate anything, no one was robbed, all money refunded

nighmare when you try to help people out, but meh you ovbiously know better

and about false data this is not ture, i set this dyno up as well, all inputs are true and honest! temp, humity is all banged in 100%

 

..... i assume you were down on the day? maby google why you were down? DD rollers are 'load bearing'. Maby you should be asking the other dynos out there figures,

loads bearing gives you a true realistic figure

look at that black r32, nothing to do with dyno, it has been dynoed @ 440 on the SAME dyno @ pdtuning, it was due to him it was down messing on



#52 s31teg

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 05:36 PM

 Trading standards,Corsa people he tried to rob??!! I hadnt heard that,do tell.

Deff wont be going back there.Confused

Mine was down and he did say if i wanted him too sort it he could,asked him how much and he skirted it quite well,never thought about it at the time.................

 

yours seems bang on! thats how i came past you with the extra ponies :P

 

 

any more questions?



#53 borachris

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Posted 20 October 2009 - 03:42 AM

Yeah, Any idea why my run was done in 3rd?



#54 gtimk4180

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Posted 20 October 2009 - 04:42 AM

I had 2 separate runs, one with the boost turned down, that was done in 4th, but my first was in third. What does the CK figure mean at the bottom of the printout?

Heres my 2 prinouts. The strange thing is, on my printout with the map turned off, my torque figure is 173, which is exactly what the book says its supposed to be standard, but its 25bhp under?

I also did a block 120 graph off a vagcom log that I did. also a rough guide is that the Maf readings are roughly 80% of your power, and I was peaking at 206g/s when I did the log

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#55 Chris.

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Posted 20 October 2009 - 05:24 AM

 CK is the checksum i think.


 


Seems they altered the dyno properties to make things look faster/slower.


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#56 willvw

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Posted 20 October 2009 - 07:44 AM

 Aren't forums great he he

gtimk4180:

 

You'll have to put some pressure on getting will along, he keeps chickening out every RR day there is, think he's worried in case he gets crap figures, I'm curious to see if he can get the 230 bhp he keeps quoting in the mags!

Will probably lowered it especially for the day, strapped some metal bar to the chassis and let all the air out of his tyres!

Right here's how it is boys,  my car was mapped at Jabba over 6 years ago and made 211bhp with standad exhaust and fillter, since then its had a Blueflame cat back exhaust and a Jabba induction kit fitted so could be around 220 if its lucky, iv never said it had 230bhp "DOM" dont believe all ya read in GOLF PLUS of all places.. This PDtuning rollin road day was the first rollin road day iv ever had the chance of attending so where ya get i keep chickenin out of them from is beyond me...  my car runs this low all year round and would be lower if if the KW's would allow..  Im not bothered if it go's on the rollers or not as i think its what the cars actually go like on the road that counts.. I had a bit play with borachris on the way up there on sunday and there was nowt in it and his made  over 190bhp so if the figure's are down then mine should be around the 210/220 mark...[B]

It has got me thinkin though,, wtf do i do when chris gets the oil burner mapped lol



#57 gtimk4180

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Posted 20 October 2009 - 07:49 AM

 Put ya handbag away!



#58 gtimk4180

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Posted 20 October 2009 - 10:27 AM

 CK is the checksum i think.

 

Seems they altered the dyno properties to make things look faster/slower.

The CK value is the number that is created by the dyno from all the data that the operator puts in.



#59 s31teg

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Posted 20 October 2009 - 11:06 AM

SHOOT_4F  stands for CORRECTION FACTOR, as your engines have 4 cylinders this is the factor you use

 AT: ambient temp
IT: Intake temp
CF: Correction factor (shootout mode type)
BP: barometric pressure
RR: ramp rate
RH: relative humidity
TN: inertia figure
CK: is a figure DD uses to check the graphs figures have not been played with and the dynos calibration


 

it does not really matter the gear, but 3/4th is most used to get the best graph, (1st for example would be to quick and could not get key data from it(like boost luls))

 

also: ftimk4180, as you say torque is bang on, most peoples were, these are just true figures not off a chepo dyno

 



#60 s31teg

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Posted 20 October 2009 - 11:09 AM

 

Hi all,

All figures on the day were estimated flywheel figures. If anyone does want @wheel figures, post your run number which is the reg number in the box at the top and a figure such as 003 (i.e AB54DUB.003) and I will get you your wheel figures.


The whole argument about which dyno gives the highest figures will rage on forever, but we need to base the accuracy of any dyno on the figures given out by a modern, healthy standard car which we did on the day.

Toledo 110tdi made 111bhp
Golf 220 tfsi made 219

Now if the dyno was 15-20% lower than say a dynojet then the toledo would have made 133 bhp, which isnt realistic at all. and the golf would be 264 standard.

My mapped PD140 golf would make 222hp (i wish) and Stegs post van (a pd105) would be 186 (or maybe less with V-power )


I do not remember a single dyno day where everyone made more or the same as they expected, some are happy as there car made high power, some are happy that they made what they are expecting, some are dissapointed. Its not uncommon for the modified (especially flash remapped) cars to make low power on the dyno, especially the 1.8t engines as there are so many really poor maps floating around that companies buy on the net for pennies and flash into peoples ECU's with no dyno testing or file development and call it a remap!







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