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Golf R32 vs E46 M3 - convince me!


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#31 Mikedav

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Posted 28 August 2005 - 02:35 PM

Can we look on the flips side of the coin
here? You may see alot of M3's on the road.....but theres a reason for
that! They are a GOOD car!The fact there are a few on the roads will not stop me from getting one as my next car!



And just as an observation i'ts quite ironic that the M3 is being
described as common by mainly Golf owners - the 9th best selling car in
Britain. M3s are definetly bought buy muppets as well as enthusiasts, but who actually gives a to$$ what anyone else thinks.







#32 ianb

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Posted 28 August 2005 - 04:29 PM

One major consideration that BMW owners will know about as it's been a very very hot topic on the M Power Forum and BMW Car Club GB is that the latest version of th M3 has major con-rod bolt failure which appears BMW has failed to cure. In the US there has been up-roar and cards have been de tuned with rev limiters being reduced etc etc and lawsuits threatened where BMW have relinquished and given US customers a 7Yr no quibble warranty.When the rods appear in the side of the block your looking at a very large bill.


Sadly over here that is not the case !....lots of furious UK BMW    owners.


Also there is the dreaded Vanos problem which is another £1,600 to put right!!


All big troubles that have been hotly debated on the BMW forum with M3 owners seething !


It's all about your disposable income............unless your one of these many company car owners..........gits


Ian 



#33 EstorilBlue

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Posted 28 August 2005 - 04:56 PM

Maybe I should do the smart thing like Mikedav, and get a 330. I do quite fancy the clubsport!

#34 Mikedav

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Posted 28 August 2005 - 05:03 PM

mmm.....Clubsport....I wanted one too, but I discovered it commands quite a premium for what amounts to a
colour, spoiler (which I would bin), front splitters, Clubsport sill plates and a 6KG
weight reduction. But very pretty.



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#35 EstorilBlue

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Posted 28 August 2005 - 05:07 PM

That would probably be a more sensible choice, judging from the potential running costs of the m3 right Mike?


And it would so have to be estoril blue!


theres a 52plate one on the net for £15k!



#36 Mikedav

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Posted 28 August 2005 - 05:11 PM

That would probably be a more sensible choice, judging from the potential running costs of the m3 right Mike?

And it would so have to be estoril blue!





It was the decision I made too...an M3 is an M3, but £700 a service,
three figure bills, slightly overweight looks, highly strung power
plant...Its in another league but then its effectivey double the price and too much of a stretch for me.
I was just happier with the 330Ci, which was positively sensible by
comparison, still quick, still RWD (I love rain!) and for the price of
a 3 year old M3 I got a 9 month old with 12k on the clock.










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Posted 28 August 2005 - 06:28 PM

Prior to purchasing my E46 M3, I owned and ran an E36 M3 Evo 3.2 for 4 years without a single fault – VANOS issues didn’t present one single fault, I was aware of their problematic past but providing you stayed on top of your servicing which included tapings and vanos adjustment [which btw you can pay BMW £215 for and have the remainder of the service carried out at an independent – cheap-skates please take note ; )] you were generally treading safe waters.


 


With the E46 M3, more importantly its S54 engine, there was an earlier problem with the conrod bearings – this was a result of mis-manufacture of the vital bearings which were initially drawn out of tolerance causing oil-starvation. That said, as soon as BMW discovered this fault they sent out a recall and the problematic bearings and oil pump [if need be] was happily exchanged FOC for a revised and corrected part - even if your car went out of warranty. What more can you ask for? The engine has one of the highest compression ratios of 11.5 : 1 and further more is designed as a daily driver unlike directly compared >100bhp/litre NA engines (Ferrari) which would have required £5k engine rebuilds every 10-15,000 miles….


 


I made sure mine was coupled with the SMG transmission and after having the latest SMGII software loaded, the grin remains on my face every time I step into the car and fire up the engine. I picked up one fully loaded with only 15k on the clock for little under £30k - which when you consider that was a year ago is a very competative price. Now? Well you can pick up nice examples of M3s for <£25k. A relative bargain when you consider the package that it presents.


 


I sourced a 2003 model which had all problems rectified, and having taken the car to red-line almost everyday several times – my car has never missed a beat! I’ve had nothing but A1 service from BMW and quite importantly, so far, post recall I’ve yet to hear or read of one single E46 M3 S54 engine going kaboom. Have you?

The S54 engine was never de-tuned – this is a total myth. The reason the later engines feel slower is because BMW recommended different fully synthetic oil changing from 5w30 to 10w60 which has a thicker viscosity providing more lubrication therefore slowing the inner mechanics of the engine. I personally use 10w40. I know BMW whine about using 10w60 but the difference I get from changing to 40 viscosities is amazing, a more responsive engine, quicker warm up and a faster operating engine J



As I stated, I previously owned an E36 M3 and while the new E46 M3 lacks the steering feel of the old it out handles and out performs the E36 in every other way, particularly with the SMGII transmission. You have all the power of a manual combined with more power and immediate response – superb. My older brother drives an SL55 AMG and I wouldn’t even swap my M3 for that car. The M3 is the best all-rounder inside of its price-bracket, hands down. The engine has repeatedly [for 5 years in a row] won the accolade of engine of the year, and it is difficult to doubt its great achievement – power al the way through the rev range rather than a short lived wedge of torque combined with razor-sharp throttle response, it is a delight to drive.


 


I’m fortunate enough to own a chipped 1.8T Golf and while I love the Anni Golf for what it is – a great city-car, I have serious doubts any Golf hatchback can be directly compared to an uber coupe which was designed from ground-up on the legendary Nurburgring. The very dynamics of the Mk4 hatch providing an abysmal drag coefficient and the weak flexing chassis [which is demonstrated when you jack up the car and then cannot open and close a door] are the real Achilles heel of the car. The one fellow who frequents this board who has spent countless thousands of pounds boosting his 1.8T Golf even shows regret at his chosen platform because even he confessed to the inherent weakness of the Mk4 – its platform. That doesn’t spell immediate doom by no means it just means that it is near impossible to directly compare the cars as they differ so much.



I also haven’t even got around to commenting on the subtle, non chaved up styling that graces the M3 it is a gorgeous feat of engineering… lol


 


I apologise for my tone and earlier post – I got a little too defensive; it just annoys me when people [who quite often out of envy] make sweeping generalisations about a BMW particularly the legendary motorsport fleet which has a history of perfecting true driving dynamics. Now be gone you snivelling VW peasants… ;)


 


Oh and EstorilBlue - well with a name like that, your mind is almost certainly made up! Best colour for the M3 IMO.



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Posted 28 August 2005 - 06:56 PM

if you have the cash to buy an M3, consider this.  Buy an R32, get
a stage 3 turbo installed, and you will be killing M3's all day long.



The R32 is good for at least 400hp running stage 3.





#39 Mikedav

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Posted 28 August 2005 - 07:00 PM

if you have the cash to buy an M3, consider
this.  Buy an R32, get
a stage 3 turbo installed, and you will be killing M3's all day long.
The R32 is good for at least 400hp running stage 3.





By that logic, buy a Polo GT, fit a W12 Phaeton engine in the back and
twin turbo it. You'll be killing M3s all day long.



Its a very different prospect.








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Posted 28 August 2005 - 07:09 PM

if you have the cash to buy an M3, consider this.  Buy an R32, get a stage 3 turbo installed, and you will be killing M3's all day long.

The R32 is good for at least 400hp running stage 3.


 


Not a really fair comparison when you are comparing one car which is aftermarket tuned to another that is stock [oem]. If you do want to pose the possibilities of each party tuning, the debate would get too side-tracked. Off topic, here is a nice video for you:


http://www.e46psi.co...n=go&to=video10


Porsche 911 Turbo X50 package [450bhp] vs. BMW E46 M3 Supercharged. Which would I take? Despite the M3 beating the 911 -it would be the 911 hands down, it is my dream car. Well no, actually this is:


http://www.miracledetail.co.uk/includes/watermarkLarge.php?type=gallery&theImageID=497


 



#41 geoffone

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Posted 29 August 2005 - 03:19 AM

I see ALOT more M3's than S4/RS4's....and thats because the M3 is a better car. Simple!



Have you driven an RS4 or M3? You see alot more M3's on the road because the RS4 was produced in limited numbers (400 UK models) NOT because the M3 is a better car....


 



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Posted 29 August 2005 - 03:22 AM

actually i dont think the comparision is that wrong. all i an saying is that if you have the extra 15,000 it takes to buy an M3 and you think the R32 isnt quick enough then you could easily bring an R32 to exceed the M3's performance for less cash.

to compare aftermarket mods to the M3 is unfair since the purchase price was already much much higher.

also a turbo R32 is a very unique car that perhaps 10 people in the uk will own. you see an M3 on every street corner these days.

#43 ianb

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Posted 29 August 2005 - 07:16 PM

E30 M3 is the M car to have in my oppinion. The car was built from scratch as a race car and the chassis is sublime.


It was only built due to homologation reasons when racing in the DTM in Germany. I've driven one and they are truly amazing out of the box in THEIR day. Trouble is things have moved mostly in the power and weight department.200bhp is the norm nowdays therefore manufacturers are searching for a quicker by adding HP.


 


As a track focused car the E30 is very superb on a tight budget but they are getting old but are still very desirable.


I had a MK2 16V with 2 litres and 200 bhp and with all the right bits it was very quick on track and was quite a bit quicker than the heavier E3O..But the track was it's home even though I used it on road it wasn't the most refined road car ! It was the only cars I liked to compare to the M3 with a finely balanced chassis and revvy engine........mine revved to just under 8000rpm !!


I hear the new M3 is a very good handling car..in the right hands.


I recently considered an E36 M3 for sale at Munich Legends. It is white and has been especially prepared for road and track and is in white.Just the sort of thing for the ring.


 


For me though the M5 is the daddy for 20k it's exclusive comparing it to an M3 and it is just so complete. If I could cope with the high petrol price/consumption I'd probably one of these.Got to sort out their miserable brakes though !


 


Ian  



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Posted 30 August 2005 - 12:30 PM


I see ALOT more M3's than S4/RS4's....and thats because the M3 is a better car. Simple!



Have you driven an RS4 or M3? You see alot more M3's on the road because the RS4 was produced in limited numbers (400 UK models) NOT because the M3 is a better car....


 



Out of the box the M3 is a better car. With an RS4 you need to as most owners have the GMBH suspension. It also lacks a great exhaust note. But you are right that there are fewer RS4's compared to M3's due to the limited numbers.


For me the M3 is the car to have above an R32. Ones a mid range performance hot hatch and the other a true performance car. I'm starting to look for a new car (probably second hand) and will spend between £18 & £25k. The R32 does not feature in my shortlist - cant be arsed to spend the money needed to sort it out. The M3 you can leave as std.


Jonathan


ex RS4, E46 M3 and R32 -


 


 


 







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