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Help with a dodgy V6 4Motion purchase. Please, any advice appreciated.


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#31 motionlee

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Posted 17 December 2010 - 10:41 AM

Car as a valid mot which vosa agree with, you will have to try and find someone who will take this on as a no win no fee, so you dont spend your own money pal.




#32 R32Pete

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Posted 17 December 2010 - 11:46 AM

The ad says fog lights, well if it only has one and one has been replaced with a non fog unit, that isnt fog lights.

Mate thats all you need to give the car back, As a dealer you cannot and i express cannot advertise something not on the car you can take it back and get your money refunded.

 

He may also have the dollar to see you in court but that doesnt mean he'd win mis selling isnt taken lightly anywhere and youd be draggin his dealership through the mud.



#33 Paul180884

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Posted 17 December 2010 - 12:13 PM

Sorry to hear this, maybe you should see how loaded he really is and make some modifications to his forecourt and stock.


Its gut wrenching, i hope you can get something back from it legally.



#34 Manderson

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Posted 18 December 2010 - 10:43 AM

I am not one to advocate anything illegal. I am trying to be absolutely straight about this despite what I feel about him. He will get his own, what comes around....



#35 Manderson

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Posted 18 December 2010 - 11:01 AM

 

Make/Model: Volkswagen Mk 4 Golf V6 4 motion





General Information:



Body style: 3 Door Hatch


Engine type: petrol


Transmission: manual


Engine number: BDE009088 (from Reg. Doc.)


Vehicle identification number: WVWZZZ1JZ3D505768


Mileage readings:


Start of inspection: 40,613 miles


End of inspection: 40,613 miles


Lighting: Satisfactory


Weather: Lying Snow


Ramp available: No


Assistance available: Yes


Service history: Partial service history


Last serviced on 20/10/2010 at 40201 miles



Assignment Brief / Background Info:



Customer bought vehicle recently. A local garage have advised that the vehicle has been


written off but the vehicle is not recorded as such.


There is an MOT advisory stating floor damage done some time ago.


We are asked to look at the vehicle report on its condition.


Have repairs been carried out to an acceptable standard and has it been repaired to


manufactures standards


Is vehicle safe to use



Observations:



It is understood that the present owner purchased the vehicle a short while ago after the


vendor had stated that the vehicle had not had body repairs carried out. The vehicle came with


a new MOT test certificate but (although it has been subsequently found out it had one) not the


advisory notice.


After the vehicle had been delivered to him, Mr.XXXX became aware of several problems


and defects and had the vehicle inspected by other garages, which culminated in an inspection


by VOSA, who issued another MOT certificate with an advisory notice, Indicating substantial


damage/repair.


An engineer's report has now been requested on the condition of the right-hand side of the


vehicle in particular and other areas.


Although outwardly, the right-hand cosmetic panels appeared to be presentable, on closer


examination it was evident that the right side of the vehicle had be the subject of considerable,


and unsatisfactory repair, with the following noted:


1) The chipped paint on the fixing bolt heads and the appearance that their flat washers had


moved (seen under the bonnet), indicated the RH/F wing had been removed and/or replaced.


There was distortion seen in the R/H/F wing's fixing flange area (seen under the bonnet).


2) The R/H/F headlight assembly was incorrect for the model in as much as the fog light


position within the assembly was "blanked off" (a fog light was fitted within the L/H headlight


assembly). One of the upper fixing brackets of the R/H/headlight was seen


to be broken.


3) Looking at the R/H/F road wheel, it was noted that it was sitting closer to the rear of the


wheel arch than the L/H/F wheel. Looking from the front of the vehicle, the L/H/F wheel


appeared to be fitting further in under the wing area than the R/H/F wheel.


4) Looking under the front of the vehicle, the R/H/F suspension lower arm was constructed


from "pressed steel" material and yet the L/H one was of a "cast" metal./


5) There was some damage (and possible repair) seen in the R/H/F alloy outer wheel rim.


6) The R/H door appeared to be satisfactory, however, the black paint had been chipped off


of the hinges and hinge bolts, revealing red paint. The top inner area of the door frame


appeared to have been painted with a "matt black" paint as this area did not shine and had a


rough or "dry" feel to it.


7) With the door aperture rubber seal pulled away, gas/mig welds were seen on the upper sill


panel flange which were not the manufacturer's welded joints. These type of gas/mig welds


were also seen along the lower sill flange.


8) body filler had been used in the repair of the R/H sill panel and, as the sealer applied


under the paint finish on the panel faded away to non existence towards its rear area, it is


possible that the panel had been repaired by inserting a part panel piece.


9) With the inner lower R/H interior trims pulled away, ripples/ distortion was seen on the


upper area of the R/H inner sill panel.


10) With the right side of the vehicle jacked up (a trolley jack was used), Considerable


damage/distortion was seen to the front outer floor area and the chassis support box member


fitted to this side of the floor pan. furthermore, the under seal had been damaged and scraped


off of this box panel.


11) In a certain light a line could be seen under the paint surface on the rear quarter panel,


running from the "C" pillar to the quarter light glass. With the tailgate open, the seam sealer


and welds in the right side of the tailgate aperture, was different to that on the left side (the


latter being manufacturer finish) and therefore it would seem that the quarter panel (or part of


it) had been replaced.


12) looking along the line of the right side of the roof panel, ripples and distortion was seen on


the area above the rear of the door (just forward of the "B" pillar and when measured, the paint


depth on this area was considerably greater than other areas. it is therefor likely that body filler


had been used in the repair of this area.



Conclusion / Opinion:



From this limited examination of the vehicle, it is confirmed that the vehicle has been the


subject of at least 1 major body repair (possibly 2) and the work was not considered to have


been to an acceptable standard.


Although the vehicle has just been examined and passed by VOSA, It must be question


whether the repair has compromised the strength and structure of the vehicle. This is


particularly relevant when you consider the model and performance capabilities of the vehicle


To determine the full extent and condition of the repairs to the vehicle, it is believed that further


dismantling and removal of more interior trims will be necessary.


It is strongly advised that a full chassis, suspension and steering geometry check be carried


out, to determine the true alignment of the vehicle. Furthermore it must be questioned why the


front wheels do not appear to be correctly positioned or why lower suspension arms of


different materials and construction are fitted.


The R/H headlight assembly should be replaced with the correct one for the model.


The right-hand front wheel should be examined thoroughly (with the removal of the tyre) to


determine the extent of the damage to the wheel rim area.




#36 chrisr

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Posted 25 December 2010 - 02:17 AM

 Sorry to read about all the things the inspection found, Whats the next course of action your planning?



#37 Manderson

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Posted 25 December 2010 - 07:04 AM

Hello fella,


I'm gutted. My solicitor wrote to them on the 23rd giving them until the 6th January to resolve the matter. I have very little hope of the guy even responding.


I decided not to run the thread on two forums and because I am new to this one it is mostly running on VZI here


http://www.volkszone...ad.php?t=683398


I hope that this is allowed mods. I'm not trying to poach anyone from your site, its just that I have been a member on VZI for a while so know people on there due to my air cooled VW and I didn't want to run the thread on both forums. Please feel free to delete the post if it is not allowed.


I would still like to stay a member of uk-mkivs and will hope to contribute here once I have a new V6 4m. Until then I will probably just be a lurker and didn't want to come in with such a heavy thread as a newbie.


I still think that it is useful for people on this site to know exactly what goes on out there and if there are people selling cars like this, it being known can only help other Mk4 owners i hope.



#38 Diesel

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 12:21 PM

 Following the other thread you have..


Do stick around and dont go because of this.  All VW at the end of the day.  Dont see a problem with this thread staying at all.


I really hope you get it sorted in the end.


When your on the search again im sure there are V6 4Mo owners on here who will be able to offer advice.


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#39 jakewalsh

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 12:35 PM

while i feel for you, you also need to look at both sides of the coin, alot of cars like this are bought trade from the block, auctions etc. where you get a limited look at the car,


the trader will then sell it on, most trade cars i see have had bad botch up paint at sometimes in there life, and as you missed this when you bought the car, a car you actually wanted, cant it be said that the dealer also made the same mistake, simply thinking shoddy job? to notice by eye that a wheel is back 10mm is pretty difficult.


my thinking would be some one stuffed it, repaired it on the cheap then traded it on quick,


how long did you have the car before you noticed these problems? as if its too long, what stops him turning round saying you damaged the car and then repaired and are pulling a fast one,


thats just a flip side opinion mate, hope it dont cause offence



#40 olie3146

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 12:40 PM

Problem is, if youve had it more than the cooling off period allows then there is no real going back, my dad bought a 2nd hand merc from a dealer 3 weeks later the auto gearbox went and he had to fork out £550 plus £150 to fit it


Let us know how you get on [Y]



#41 Manderson

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 01:44 PM

Thanks Chaps,


Please read it all Jake. I am not going to take any offence as you haven't.


I'm not going to repeat it all, but as a dealer if you buy a nail, then you find out, thats part of your business. You declare it and sell it on at what you paid for it in an honest manner. Nobody loses.


I noticed the problems on my FIRST trip out in it, have done less than 100miles in it. ALL to garges etc. Its not like I don't love the car, just that it is not what I worked and saved hard for, bought and its likely not safe. More importantly, the garage knew and lied to me.


That is not playing the game. Or rather it is...


He can't say that I did the damage. It was discovered when he MOT'd it, but did not disclose it to me. Granted, he may not have known the extent of the damage, although I expect differently, but he knew and kept it to himself to make what I imagine to be a rather nice profit.


 


 


 



#42 pauly4226

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 02:09 PM

wow,really sorry to hear of this mate,kinda going to make me look a bit harder at the next car i buy. just wondered,and maybe a way of getting some money back,was any of the purchase funded by credit card? if so then would it be covered under their garauntee? any credit /finance on the deal? again wondered of any other ways that you might be able to get your money back.might not help but if you end up having to keep the car reckon there is plenty of us on here who can help out. good luck,keep us posted.

#43 NINEIRON

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 02:16 PM

Hi mate ive had to deal with a few like this were i work im not an mot station but to quote what you wrote "inadequate welding, Badly spot
welded with a mig welder rather than seamed or spot welded properly" im sure the mot station were we get ours done told me that all replacement parts are to be seam welded now and inadequate welding were about is it on the car cos if its in a motable area i would be taking the car along with mot to the nearest VOSA office that deal with vic checks etc and report the lot of them,


all the best & Good luck



#44 NINEIRON

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 02:24 PM

Just to add i would also try and get him done for clocking the car aswell ive just been looking at your thread on vzi (I have since noticed that the vehicle when purchased had less miles on
the clock than when it was taken to the MOT station some two weeks prior
to the sale.) do him for everything you can fella name and shame him local press the lot mate



#45 standerson1

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 03:10 PM

Truly awful [:(]


If all fails, I'm pretty sure I could point you in the right direction of some 'help' in stuffing them over on a more personal level!



#46 Manderson

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 04:25 PM

 Yey, Thanks all. Looks like I'm a bit fked on this to be honest. However, I have some contacts and it seems that the dealer does not have the money to see me that he has said he has. That is not necessarily a good thing on my part. There will be no winding up order on my part. My solicitors need to lift the limited liability which can be done apparently.


Thank NineIron for the offer of a contact. I am keeping this civilised as I like my legs. That said, If i even get a hint of threat I still lived in Brixham for a very long time and some of the old fishing crew would love to hear my story.



#47 Cliveski

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 05:13 PM

Sad story - have you contacted the previous owner? they might be willing to pass on some information now they no longer own it. Your gripe isn't with them after all.


For anyone looking to buy a car the important lesson here is just because a car is hpi clear etc it doesn't mean it hasn't been involved in a serious accident or got poor body repairs. There are cars out there which have had serious unrecorded damage which will show up as hpi clear. Also cars which have had serious damage but not enough to be a write off would be hpi clear.


Have you looked at the full MOT history on the VOSA website? that might give more clues about when it might have been damaged. Low mileage or periods of little mileage can indicate a car has sat somewhere awaiting someone to repair it and put it back on the road.


 



#48 jakewalsh

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Posted 01 January 2011 - 08:12 AM

just sounds a bit suspect thats all, you've bought a bit of a lemon and now are trying to blame other people, end of the day no one forced you to buy it, you must of been happy enough to spend such a large ammount of cash on the car, did you test drive it? as you say that you noticed the problems the very next day

as for the dealer having to tell you? it will be a blcok car they buy them cheap and sell them on, they dont really car or look into the quality at all really

#49 mickstoke

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Posted 01 January 2011 - 08:36 AM

 tbh mate the bodywork side can be sorted easy! i would be more concerned about getting the car optoflexed (4 wheel alinement).


It maybe the subframe as moved on its bolts and needs moving forward or just needs new bottom arm.


Lots of cars have repairs on them that the owner don't realise are there. With me working in a bodyshop my friends hate it when they buy secondhand cars because i find repairs that have been done on their cars!


When buying a car if u did not spot the repairs and you buy the car then sorry to say thats your fault! If the car was a cat c or b(should of been scraped) then you would have a case and the dealer would have no choice but to give you a refund!



#50 Manderson

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 09:28 AM

Thanks chaps,


I think that you are correct. I do think that it is my fault. I have always bought privately in the past and have therefore had all the right checks etc done. I stupidly thought that if I bought from a dealer there would be some sort of honesty, code of conduct, and a relative level of protection against false selling etc. If i bought from a side street, ebay, back of the paper etc I accept full responsibility. I didn't do the checks as thouroughly as I should on this basis. I was wrong.


However, to suggest that it is entirely my fault and that I am now just trying to blame somebody else is unfair. If you bought a TV or anything else high value from a dealer at top price and then it broke the very same day. You then found out that it had been dropped and badly repaired and could have safety issues, would you be happy to accept it? You looked at it in the shop, you liked the picture. Whats the difference?



#51 jakewalsh

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 09:43 AM

if it were a new tv then yes, but were not talking new, were on about 8/10 yr old cars



#52 Manderson

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 09:59 AM

But you would be ok with a second hand item of any description not being as described or fit for purpose or safe? We are not talking about a bit of paintwork here. We are talking about a very powereful car that should both carry and protect not only me but my family.



#53 jakewalsh

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 10:10 AM

depends how bad it is, im in a different situation were i know what to look for, but i wouldnt be naive enough to think a dealer of all people would be trust worthy, they sell some super shiz,


it think at some point in our life we have all bought something that has turned out to be not what we expected, saldy yours just happend to be in the thousands,


but what i will say is anybody can critique something they havent repaired, but without seeing it, its hard to say how this would impact the car itself



#54 jakewalsh

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 10:12 AM

can i ask the actual time scale between purchase and all the faults found etc, could try small claims but doubt things like that often work



#55 VAGMAD79

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 10:12 AM

Take the matter to trading standards, the guy does not have a leg to stand on, he purposely sold you a dodgy car [6] without informing you of the crash, which has clearly been covered up because the hpi does not show it up, which is a crime within itself, i would argue this car is a death trap and could kill you and others and is a major case of fraud and cover up, dont forget you have rights mate, as a buyer, the guy is a bent crook, go in nand be very diplomatic but straight and stern and tell him he will have his company dragged through court if he does not refund you. Also my mate had a similar case and took it to the local newspaper and they wroye a full page article and he ended up folding - result![<:o)]


Stand up for yourself my man i hope it all goes well and you are on the road in a straight mk4 as soon as.


Take care.



#56 jakewalsh

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 10:41 AM

sorry but that^ is plain stupid,


a hpi will only tell you if a car has been written off, not if some idiot stoved it then repaired it on the cheap,and lets face it if its been repaired with 2nd hand panels and insurance shop more than likely hasnt done it,


but just because the dealer did not tell him it had been in a bump does not mean he knew,


like i have said dealers buy cars at the auction lot, most of these have had dodgy paint, hence why they are cheap at auction, most dealers i know will never carry out an inspection on a car, only bring it for rectification to make it sell,  the problem you have is persuading the court he did infact know about said damage, and if the op originally missed it, then it stands to reason that the dealer could of also does it not.


i wish you the best of luck sorting the mess out, sadly there is no set standards to this and even repair to written off cars have no real guide lines....the vic check is only to make sure the car is the correct one for the chassi number



#57 Manderson

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 10:46 AM

 Hi Jake,


I bought it in the afternoon and it overheated within 10miles. The dealer came and picked it up and took it back to the garage. He delivered it to me the next day.


Two days after that when i drove it i took it to ATS as the brake warning light came on. They would not let me under their ramp (elf and safety) but did say to get it checked out. I took it to a well respected independant body shop who gave me the great news, then to a main dealer VW who said that I should have it independantly checked and should not drive it. I did do this. In all I have not driven even one mile other than to visit garages/inspections etc. Whether it is my fault or not, I hope that you can appreciate that I was ripped off and although I may have been stupid, you will understand why I am slightly intoxicated off about it.


Basically, I complained i feel legitimately, and was told in no uncertain terms that I could fk off. An offer of sorry and we can talk maybe a better response I feel.


 


 



#58 usher80

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 09:00 AM

The time for him to reply to your solicitor has pased now. Did he get a reply of any sort?



#59 jack323

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 10:29 AM

I would park outside the garage with a huge sign and exercise my right to peaceful protest, explain to any potential customers coming near what sort of business they are dealing with, they would soon end up losing more money than they made selling you a piece of junk. 


Might get you your money back, probably not, but I know i would feel much better about it [6]



#60 Manderson

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Posted 19 January 2011 - 05:07 PM

 No reply to me or my solicitor. My solicitor has spoken to the chap and he has threatened to sue me for what I have put as I see as fact on the internet. I have been to see my solicitor and have spoken to trading standards again today.







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