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Help with a dodgy V6 4Motion purchase. Please, any advice appreciated.


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#61 cream2cream

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Posted 23 January 2011 - 05:22 AM

the hpi check only i REPEAT ONLY shows if the car has been written off by a insurance company NOT if it has ever been damaged, its all too common for people to think if a cars hpi clear its never been smashed YEAH RIGHT!![:D]

 

you might want to look on;

 

copart.co.uk

[B]

there's thousands of cars smashed and not showin on hpi, and judgin by the prices there fetching SMASHED  there defo headin to the main dealers forecourts[6]




#62 mjn

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 11:56 AM

What happened in the end?



#63 gwyther09

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 12:45 PM

 No reply to me or my solicitor. My solicitor has spoken to the chap and he has threatened to sue me for what I have put as I see as fact on the internet. I have been to see my solicitor and have spoken to trading standards again today.

I bought a golf from a dealer called MOTEC in haverfordwest, (dont mind mentioning the name - spread the word) test drove it, beautiful. Bought it 3days later. On the 10mile drive home the car overheated, and there was water spewing everywhere. Great - the water pump had gone! Phoned him the next day asked him to repair it and he said no it was SOLD AS SEEN and he wouldnt give me my money back either. I wasnt about to take that lying down as i had just sold my clio after repairing headgasket etc after the water punp had gone and wasnt going to risk spending that cash again, especially when id just bought it!!! Also found out the engine temperature gauge had been disconnected as there was no temperature displaying when it was boiling over. So took a trip to the local TRADING STANDARDS office who told me invaluable advice. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS SOLD AS SEEN WHEN BUYING FROM A DEALER/BUSINESS!! They told me to write a letter listing the faults and then to write clearly in the letter the words 'I AM REJECTING THE CAR'. You have 30DAY WARRANTY after buying a car from a dealer to bring it back - No questions asked, Thats the LAW. The company then has a maximum of 10 days to reply to the letter otherwise TRADING STANDARDS themselves take them to court for you & they risk losing their business! I then sent the letter to them recorded delivery like they told me to so they could not say they had not recieved it. 2days later had a phone call from the dealer offering to repair it which i politely told him to stick up his a**e and collected my £3000 from him the next day!!

I was raving angry about his attitude when on the phone to me as if to say theres nothing you can do about it and took all my strength not to take his head off when there to get my money back but the look on his face when i turned up to collect my money was priceless and ill never forget!!

But back to the point, that was absolutely brilliant advice for free that without i would not have been able to get my money back - That said I cannot believe or understand why your solicitor did not tell you this???!! And i guess by the time you went to trading standards looking at your post dates it was too l8. Wish id seen this post sooner so i couldve helpd you out but i hope you got something sorted in the end! It sucks when things like this happen to good people!!



#64 cream2cream

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 01:18 PM

yeah he would of sh&t his pants twice fold when the trading standards called him[:P]

 

there should b more press about this makin people aware of there rights and what they can do if get ripped off[<:o)][B]



#65 Manderson

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 04:13 PM

Update is that Trading Standards have had the car inspected and I am waiting for the engineers report. The engineer wouldn't road test the car as he said that it was not safe to be on the road. The car is now in storage as it can't be used and looks like it may be there for some time. Having looked for another black on black 4motion without any real joy and having limited funds with solicitors bills etc, I've bought another car now to tide me over (sharing with my GF wasn't ideal). However, I'm still in the market for a straight (I mean really straight and honest) V6 black on black if one appears.


My only advice to anybody is not to think that buying from a dealer is any sort of safety net and make sure that you check not only the car but the business out as best you can (trading standards and companies house checks). You can't sue a ltd company if it doesn't have any money even if the owner(s) do .Well, you can, but can you get the money out of it even if you win?



#66 Washer

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 04:33 PM

 Did you buy it with finance?  If so you will have more options available to you.


I thought that the 2 week cooling off period only covered distance selling?



#67 Manderson

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 04:55 PM

 Bought it on a debit card. Since worked out that if you buy anything, buy it on a credit card, even if you only pay for £100 of it and the rest cash/debit.



#68 cream2cream

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 11:18 PM

Update is that Trading Standards have had the car inspected and I am waiting for the engineers report. The engineer wouldn't road test the car as he said that it was not safe to be on the road. The car is now in storage as it can't be used and looks like it may be there for some time. Having looked for another black on black 4motion without any real joy and having limited funds with solicitors bills etc, I've bought another car now to tide me over (sharing with my GF wasn't ideal). However, I'm still in the market for a straight (I mean really straight and honest) V6 black on black if one appears.

My only advice to anybody is not to think that buying from a dealer is any sort of safety net and make sure that you check not only the car but the business out as best you can (trading standards and companies house checks). You can't sue a ltd company if it doesn't have any money even if the owner(s) do .Well, you can, but can you get the money out of it even if you win?

 

thats the problem with this process is very lengthy, but at least you will get your moneyback at the end of it[B], and it will make traders like that think twice b4 ripping anyone else off, most traders give in and refund once a call from trading standard is made but the stubborn one's[hunter] the one's who most likely do it day in day out tend to be awkward hoping that u'll give up[:(]



#69 hermans25

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 01:28 AM

Manderson because of your question i got new and great knowledge, thanks



#70 ArronTDI

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 01:44 AM

Thats really gutting, i dont know you but i feel your anguish, ive done this before too, but on a smaller scale


 



#71 mjn

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 06:36 AM

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS SOLD AS SEEN WHEN BUYING FROM A DEALER/BUSINESS!! They told me to write a letter listing the faults and then to write clearly in the letter the words 'I AM REJECTING THE CAR'. You have 30DAY WARRANTY after buying a car from a dealer to bring it back - No questions asked, Thats the LAW.


It's better than that, i believe its 3 month warranty!



#72 cream2cream

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 05:52 AM

i think ur mis informed, there is no automatic warranty of any sort from a dealer , only that the car has to be fit for purpose nothing else


defo no automatic warranty 1 or 3 month of any sort on a used car[H]


 



#73 olie3146

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 06:13 AM

The only thing you have when buying a used car off a dealer is the cooling off period



#74 cream2cream

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 12:15 PM

nope there is non of that, it defo aint argos where you automatically get a 30 day return period[:(]

there is only FITNESS for purpose rights[B], if you drive the car 10miles down the road and the engine drops out ur defo gonna have a chance at gettin ur DOLLAR BACK[:^)] BUT if u drive it for 1 month and the gearbox falls out thats ur fault [cry]if the car was sold without any guarantee or warranty.

you might wanna ring consumer direct for advice on this if ur unsure as the last thing u wanna do is try and take back the car with some made up conditions then get it SLAPPED BACK in UR FACE![:O]



#75 mjn

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 05:41 AM

Ok, thanks for the clarification.  I can't remember where i read / saw / heard about the 3 month warranty thing.  Doing a search on Google brings up quite a few hits, and it seems to be a widely believed "myth"


Nothing like confusing people.



#76 cream2cream

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 07:01 AM

yeah there's alot of crap on the net, best thing to do if u get ripped off by anyone just call you comsumer direct for instant free advice, its what i do



#77 cream2cream

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 07:02 AM

http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/



#78 gwyther09

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 11:24 AM

i think your or you're mis informed, there is no automatic warranty of any sort from a dealer , only that the car has to be fit for purpose nothing else

defo no automatic warranty 1 or 3 month of any sort on a used carCool

 

This is what i said and i just got it from your link to back up -

Some dealers may use disclaimers such as ' Sold as Seen', 'Trade sale Only' or 'No Refund' to try and limit your rights. However, these rights cannot be taken away or restricted by a dealer.

And its 30 days - wether you want to call it warranty, cooling off whatever its 30days your protected for is my point! You cant bring it back a year later and say they sold it to you unfit for purpose can you! 30days!



#79 craigolfmk4

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 12:29 PM

Best of luck with solving all of this. 



#80 cream2cream

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 12:49 PM

i think your or you're mis informed, there is no automatic warranty of any sort from a dealer , only that the car has to be fit for purpose nothing else

defo no automatic warranty 1 or 3 month of any sort on a used carCool

 

This is what i said and i just got it from your link to back up -

Some dealers may use disclaimers such as ' Sold as Seen', 'Trade sale Only' or 'No Refund' to try and limit your rights. However, these rights cannot be taken away or restricted by a dealer.

And its 30 days - wether you want to call it warranty, cooling off whatever its 30days your protected for is my point! You cant bring it back a year later and say they sold it to you unfit for purpose can you! 30days!

 

so are u saying that u have a automatic warranty of 30 days if you buy any used car in the uk? like argos offer a moneyback warranty?

 

this is new to me mate[:|]



#81 gwyther09

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 02:04 PM

 If its unfit for purpose yes



#82 cream2cream

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 03:31 PM

SO thats means i can buy a used lupo for example and after 3 weeks say its unfit for purpose because window's stoed working or door handle as jammed?


 


this seems very hard to belive BUT[:(]


 


who told you this? ur mate down the pub/ bar/ local supermarket/ garage/ on the bus/ train or a legal boffin? [:O]



#83 Washer

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 03:46 PM

SO thats means i can buy a used lupo for example and after 3 weeks say its unfit for purpose because window's stoed working or door handle as jammed?

 

this seems very hard to belive BUTSad

 

who told you this? your or you're mate down the pub/ bar/ local supermarket/ garage/ on the bus/ train or a legal boffin? Surprise

Dude just pick one ffs!



#84 pastieman

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 03:59 PM

taken for consumer direct.........



So, you've bought a car, but there's a problem. Here's what you need to do next.


If things go wrong


If something goes wrong,
stop using the car and go back to the dealer straight away and explain
the problem and say what you want done.


Keep in mind however that if you purchased your car with a Hire Purchase agreement,
your statutory rights will be with the finance company rather than the
dealer (under the Supply of Goods (Implied Terms) Act 1973). Under this
act the car must be of satisfactory quality, fit for purpose, correspond
with any description given, and the creditor must have the right to
sell the car. Where the car does not correspond to any one of the above,
you may be entitled to reject the car for a full refund or claim
compensation.


If the dealer fails to fulfill their obligations
under the Sale of Goods Act, with regard to satisfactory quality,
fitness for purpose, and the car's description, they will be in breach
of contract and you are entitled to various remedies. The appropriate
remedy will depend on a number of factors, including:




  • how long ago you purchased the car



  • the type of remedy that you are seeking



  • the seriousness of any fault or defect



  • whether the fault or defect keeps recurring



  • the cost of carrying out repairs or replacing the car



Here is a list of remedies to consider based on your specific circumstances:



Full refund


You may be able to request a
full refund if you detected a serious fault, if it is still within a
reasonable time of the sale and you have stopped using the car.
'Reasonable time' is not defined in law so it will also depend on the
facts - it can vary from weeks to a few months. Be sure to keep all of
your documents, such as independent inspections in writing as it is up
to you to prove that the car was faulty at the time of the purchase if
the dealer disputes your claim. If your complaint is deemed valid, you
are also entitled to claim for reasonable losses suffered, including the
cost of any independent report you have paid for to prove your case.


If you initially choose to
allow the dealer to repair the fault within a reasonable period after
the sale, you are still entitled to a refund if the repair turns out to
be unsatisfactory. 


If you are not entitled to a
full refund - for example, because a 'reasonable time' has elapsed, you
may be able to claim compensation for your losses resulting from being
supplied with a faulty car.


Basic example of when a refund may be applicable:
You
discover that your one-year old car bought from a dealer for £10,000 a
few days ago has a major engine fault. You complain to the dealer
straight away and request a full refund but the dealer disputes your
claim. You agree to take the car to an independent garage and they
confirm that the engine was in a very poor condition when sold. You
provide the dealer with a written report of the garage's findings and
ask for your money back.
In these circumstances the dealer must
accept the car back and provide a full refund, as well as pay for any
reasonable losses you have suffered such as the cost of the written
report.



Repair or replacement



If you do not want (or are not entitled to) a full refund or
to claim compensation, you may request either a repair to the car or a
replacement for a similar car.


If you want a repair or
replacement (or when these are not feasible, a partial or full refund)
in the first six months after the sale, it is presumed that the fault or
defect was present at the time of the sale. This time, if it is
disputed by the dealer, the dealer must prove otherwise - not you. They
will need to provide reasonable evidence that the fault was not present
at the time of sale, not just a pre-sale 'tick box' check of the
mechanical condition of the car at the time it was sold.


However, if the fault or
defect only becomes apparent after six months, it is up to you to
provide evidence that it existed at the time of the sale.


Repairs and replacements must be carried out within a reasonable time without causing you any significant inconvenience.


Any replacement car you are
offered should be of a similar age, mileage and model as your original
car at the time you requested the replacement.


Basic example of when a repair or replacement might be applicable:
You
complain to your dealer that the one-year old car you bought from them
for £8,000 three months ago has a faulty gearbox so you ask them to
repair the car. It will be presumed that the car had a faulty gearbox at
the time of sale and the dealer must carry out the repair to the
gearbox at no cost to you unless they can prove that the car was of
satisfactory quality at the time of sale.



Partial and full refund


If neither a repair nor
replacement is realistically possible, you can request a partial or full
refund depending on what is reasonable in the circumstances. For
example, it may be the case that a full refund is not an option because
you have used the car for some time before the problem appeared.




You can switch between certain remedies if you find you are
getting nowhere with the dealer. But you must give the dealer a
reasonable time to honour your request before you switch and you can
never pursue two remedies at the same time.
 
Basic example of when you might switch remedies:
You
discover that a one-year old car you bought for £10,000 three months
ago is faulty. You take it to the dealer who agrees to repair the car.
The dealer takes over two months to repair the car but the fault
persists. In these circumstances you may request a replacement car or a
refund instead because the repairs have not remedied the fault, were not
carried out within a reasonable time and have caused significant
inconvenience to you.


You can usually take court
action up to six years from the date you bought the car (five years in
Scotland). This does not mean that the car has to last or be fault free
for six years; it is the time limit for making a claim in court in
respect of a fault that was present at the time of sale. Before taking
such action you may want consider obtaining independent legal advice.


If the dealer is a member of a trade association such as Motor Codes, Retail Motor Industry Federation, Scottish Motor Trade Association or Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders that follows a code of practice, you should follow any complaint procedure they operate.


Look out for businesses displaying the OFT Approved code logo.
It means that the business is operating under a trade body that has an
approved code of practice- providing you with high standards of customer
service and ensuring your rights as a consumer are better protected.
The Motor Codes of Practice for New Cars (covering warranties on new
cars and older cars where the manufacturer's warranty is still current)
is approved under this scheme. For more information visit www.oft.gov.uk/codes and www.motorcodes.co.uk .


In Scotland, some district
councils require used vehicle dealers to register, and issue them with a
licence. If you are in Scotland and have problems with a dealer,
contact your local Trading Standards Services


 



#85 pastieman

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 03:59 PM


Your rights when buying from a car dealer



When buying from a dealer, under the Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended) a car must be:




  • Of satisfactory quality. It must meet the
    standard a reasonable person would regard as satisfactory, bearing in
    mind the way it was described, how much it cost, the make, the age, the
    history,  the mileage, the intended usage of the car and any other
    relevant circumstances. Amongst other things, this covers the fitness,
    appearance and finish of the car, its safety and its durability. The car
    must be free from defects, except when they were pointed out to you by
    the seller before you agreed to buy it or where you have inspected the
    car and that inspection ought to have uncovered the car defects. Even
    where a car appears to have a minor defect, it may still be of
    unsatisfactory quality if that defect could lead to extensive damage or
    render the car dangerous to drive.


    Also:
    - It is not sufficient that a car is merely roadworthy and safe.
    - The dealer may be liable for faults that were present at the time of sale, even though they may only become apparent later on.
    -
    Dealers are not liable for fair wear and tear, where the car broke down
    through normal use. Nor are they liable for your misuse or accidental
    damage



  • As described. This covers all statements made
    about the car, whether in writing, in a conversation over the phone or
    in the showroom, in a newspaper, website, email or text, or in
    documentation. If the advert states "air conditioning and CD player"
    then the car should come with these features and they should be working.


  • Reasonably fit for any normal purpose. It
    should get you from A to B with the appropriate degree of comfort, ease
    of handling and reliability that a reasonable person would expect.



  • Reasonably fit for any other purpose you make known to the dealer. For example, if you require a vehicle for towing a caravan.




These rights
are not affected by any mechanical breakdown insurance (which is often
sold by dealers if the manufacturer's warranty has run out), guarantee
or warranty giving additional protection.


Some dealers may use disclaimers such as ' Sold as Seen',
'Trade sale Only' or 'No Refund' to try and limit your rights. However,
these rights cannot be taken away or restricted by a dealer.




Warranties/guarantees



Warranties and guarantees provide a way for you to have faults
corrected at little or no cost. They are in addition to your statutory
rights, not a substitute for them - so a dealer cannot refuse to
consider your complaint about a fault or defect with a vehicle simply
because the warranty has expired or the type of fault is specifically
excluded.


Warranties and guarantees can also be particularly useful if a
dealer has gone out of business. Important points to look out for when
considering a warranty or guarantee include:




  • Key
    elements of a warranty or guarantee should clearly be outlined prior to
    sale. For example, what is covered and excluded, claim limits and
    procedures, conditions that need to be followed in order for it to
    remain valid, etc.



  • Warranties/guarantees
    vary greatly in what they cover. Make sure you receive relevant
    documentation including clear details of the type of warranty/guarantee -
    for example, free extended manufacturer's/dealer's, manufacturers,
    insurance backed or dealer's own warranty/guarantee.



  • Once the
    dealer gives a warranty it becomes an agreement on its own, but it is
    not your legal right to demand a warranty from the dealer.



  • Even a
    free warranty is legally binding and must state that it does not affect
    your legal rights. You should also be able to view it in writing before
    the purchase.



If you inspect
the car, or someone does so for you, the dealer may not be liable for
any faults which should have been uncovered by the inspection. However,
where you inspect a car or an expert does, this mainly applies to
cosmetic defects such as scratches or dents that are obvious. It's a
good idea to get a description of the vehicle's condition from the
dealer: ask whether there is a pre-sale inspection checklist.


If after the sale you realise that your rights under the Sale
of Goods Act as described above have not been fulfilled, you are
entitled to various remedies depending on a number of factors


And remember, the dealer must have the right to sell you the
car. If you discover that they do not have this right - for example,
because the car was still subject to a finance agreement - you can
reject the car and recover any payment that has been made.



#86 pastieman

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 04:17 PM

SO thats means i can buy a used lupo for example and after 3 weeks say its unfit for purpose because window's stoed working or door handle as jammed?

 

this seems very hard to belive BUTSad

 

who told you this? your or you're mate down the pub/ bar/ local supermarket/ garage/ on the bus/ train or a legal boffin? Surprise

 

why is this so hard to believe..... its the law and our rights as consumers. (to be fair not many of the public know what our/their rights are )

you will be pretty slightly intoxicated of if you went and bought a tv for a few grand get home and it don't work... phone up currys and complain and they just said flip off... whats the difference in buying a car, tv, sofa, washing machine etc.... 

A car is a major bit of machinery and potential very very deadly, i would think it is number one on trading standers list of things to do and make sure the public are buying safe second hand cars from businesses that are doing it to make money.

 



#87 cream2cream

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 04:26 PM

what u on about[:S], i was only questioning the chap when he said u have a 30 day coooling off period like u get with new goods from argos etc..., which from the above info he is defo mis informed[^o)]


ur right there should  b more help for consumers, as not many people know abt consumer direct even thou we all well at least the workers who pay tax fund this service, yet not many of us know about it!!![*-)]


ive used them numerous times to combat  ripoff ebay sellers[:@], ebay do jackall[:(] so you always have to take the matter to small claims court or at least threaten it to get ur moneyback[;)]



#88 pastieman

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 04:49 PM

i weren't having a dig my pedigree chum.... you gave an example and it reads that you believe that if you have a fault 3 months down the line with your car after buying you can't do anything about it ...


so thats why i dug out the information because you can if you think the business/person that sold you the vehicle is at fault


 


 



#89 cream2cream

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 05:22 PM

well ive learnt something new again today[:D] and no doubt i'ii pass this info onto many people, as even if you have a fault 3months+ down the line u can still question the dealer even if he sold the car with no warranty etc...[:D]


[Y]


 



#90 ArronTDI

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Posted 22 February 2011 - 12:05 PM

 Well ive just scoured that consumer rights doc and after reading the thread its clear cut to me, if the engineers are deeming the car unroadworthy and you have documentation to that effect, your entitled to a full refund







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