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MonK-E's Drag car Project


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#901 MonK-E

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Posted 30 November 2020 - 01:31 AM

This is going to sound very mental, but are you not easier buying a 4mo shell?  Anton sold an R32 one for £500 the other day, was rolling?


I did look into it, but couldn't find anything in this area for reasonable money. Plus it would mean making another cage.
Even if I could pick a shell up for £500 it would mean another £500 in materials for a cage. With all the work involved in that there's not much difference between the two. So I thought I'd try something different and save some cash ;)
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#902 northpole

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Posted 30 November 2020 - 03:23 PM

yeah I came to the same conclusion it's why I didn't mention it... and it's all fun and games until it starts costing more than you want to spend. 


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#903 MonK-E

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Posted 30 November 2020 - 04:54 PM

Yup I'd rather spend 1k on other areas, like more power or wheels and slicks for the rear ;)
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#904 MonK-E

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Posted 19 December 2020 - 06:34 PM

Not posted for a while, I've been busy doing a few other bits. Like fitting a splitter to the other halfs car and making a induction kit for it.
Also I'm halfway through making a manifold for a fellow VWDRC members car.

I haven't really done anything to my car but I have been in deep thought about it.
Re going over the calculations for the twincharger. I missed some rather critical data that now shows that it won't work how I want it to. I'd either need to convert the supercharger to chain or gear driven to stand a chance of the belt not slipping if and when the turbo produces boost.
The other critical thing I forgot was the supercharger builds boost through rpm. So it might only start at 5psi then build to 15psi by the redline.
I need 15psi by 3k rpm minimum to get the turbo to start to spool.

So I think I'm going to sell off the supercharger and hx50 as the turbine housing is just way too big for anything I can do with it.
It really needs to go on a 3.5-4L engine.

Now I need a new plan. (Don't worry the AWD conversion is still going ahea) but power wise.
I'm thinking of 2 possibilities.

1 stop playing about with silly ideas and go for something thats proven to work like a big single that bearly spools on a 1.8t then supplement it with 2 stage nitrous. First stage to help spool then second for more top end.


Or 2 re-think the compound turbos with something more sensible. Like a K04 and a gtx35. Then add lots of sensors everywhere to try and figure out how to get the results I want.

Anyone who reads this please vote with a comment 1 or 2

#905 Glendil

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Posted 19 December 2020 - 06:53 PM

2 it’s not like you to do the norm stick at it and do your thing


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#906 rainbird

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Posted 19 December 2020 - 08:43 PM

2 gets my vote too. You've done a lot of the BTS work for it now, and I've got a totally unknown k04 taking up space...



#907 adam-

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Posted 19 December 2020 - 08:43 PM

It really needs to go on a 3.5-4L engine.

 

Plan C.  Fit above and fit twin charge kit.  R36.


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#908 MonK-E

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Posted 19 December 2020 - 09:04 PM

Haha the poll on my Facebook story says the opposite.

@rainbird I still have the k04 you sent me a fair while back. Option 2 would still require me to rework nearly everything from scratch anyway lol


@adam- hahaha I won't be considering a engine swap until I've atleast blown the 2 spare 1.8t's I have sitting in the workshop

#909 rainbird

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Posted 19 December 2020 - 09:09 PM

In that case, I'd better send you a matching one so you can run a pair of cylinders into each instead  :rolleyes:



#910 Burgy

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Posted 19 December 2020 - 09:13 PM

Bolt the 2 spares together for a 3.6 straight 8   :D



#911 MonK-E

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Posted 19 December 2020 - 09:23 PM

@rainbird haha someone did mention adding multiple turbos.
But thinking more seriously about 2x k04 turbos. It would only double the flow which might get me 500ish bhp with half the spool if I'm lucky.

Really I'm after a good 750-800


@adam- you are a bad man. But I like the idea.
If I didn't want to race the car late next year I would actually consider doing somthing that crazy

#912 northpole

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Posted 19 December 2020 - 09:28 PM

If you got 2 spare engines turn them into 1 and stick with the compound charging... but instead of making them a straight 8 turn them into a traditional v8 meaning you'll use both heads but just one bottom block that is especially made for it... it'll be a one off serious contender and a 3.6... also add 2 stage Nox to whatever you do because why the hell not?


It'll be awesome

#913 adam-

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Posted 19 December 2020 - 09:34 PM

They can be had for reasonable money and it won't take much to get them to hold that level of power.  Plus it's unique.  

 

20vs are last century.  They're self humiliation.


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#914 MonK-E

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Posted 10 January 2021 - 05:59 PM

Not posted any updates for a while. So new year new, new plans

I've said goodbye to the awd conversion and started fabricating my own back end. The idea here is to remove the dynamic toe and camber change on the back end. The stock setup has about a degree of toe in on each side and it only gets worse the more the suspension compresses. While this might be good for cornering, it's certainly not the best idea for drag racing.
Any toe in is going to cause a reasonable amount of frictional loss and when you accelerate the back end squats alot.

So starting with a beam across the back end

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Then on to making up some light weight tubular trailing arms.

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After fabricating these I realised that the bend on the inside is too close to the mounting point to be able to fit a rose joint bung in the end of it.

So they went in the bin and I fabricated a fresh set

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I stripped down the hub flanges of the original beam and cut them off. Using the stub axle in the lathe I bored out a hole the same diameter as the tube.
Then when the rose joins turned up I machined up the adapter bungs for them

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Perfect fit

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I then made up a jig to hold it all in place

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After welding it out. I added some reinforment to the back of the hub flange.

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Time to offer it up

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I haven't welded the shock mount on yet as I'll probably wait until I get a set of gaz rear coilovers.
I've also pretty much gone as far as I can with these until pay day due to needing rear wheel bearings.
I need to put the hubs back on with the wheels to get the track width right before I weld the mounting tabs on the beam.


That's about all I have done to the car for the minute but a few other little bits have turned up for the new engine build.

First off I found a tfsi crank for £150 so I couldn't resist

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Then this little whistlie thing turned up.

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Offering it up I should be able to make a small twinscroll extension to the manifold to get it to fit

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I had to put it on the bench and compare it to a k03

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Happy new year peeps
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#915 MonK-E

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Posted 25 January 2021 - 08:25 AM

I managed to get the engine out this weekend

360.jpg


Then stripped the engine down
But all was not so well with it.

All 4 bores have similar shiny patches a few inches down.
Theres 2 possible reasons for this. Either the wrist pins were a touch too tight or the piston to wall clearance was too excessive.
Or a combination of both. Most likely the latter, as when I get round to measuring them I think they will be over 3.9 thou.

360.jpg

Not only that but there is a bit of scratching in there too.
Which could be caused from a bit of contamination but most likely due to this....

360.jpg

#916 northpole

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Posted 25 January 2021 - 09:46 AM

Time to bore the bottom block out and put in some oversized pistons, lightened, hardened and balanced crankshaft and conrods... it'll put down even more power ;) it ain't cheap though...

#917 MonK-E

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Posted 25 January 2021 - 10:02 AM

Time to bore the bottom block out and put in some oversized pistons, lightened, hardened and balanced crankshaft and conrods... it'll put down even more power ;) it ain't cheap though...


Yep going to have to send the block off and get it bored out for 82.5mm pistons.
I have the 2.0 tfsi crank so it would be rude not to have a 2.0 20v.
I'll balance the pistons and rods. I doubt I'll get the crank balanced as I'm only going to rev to 8.5k

Depending on what the beetle engine bores measure out to. We might be stroking that at the same time to see if we can get a deal for 2 engines

#918 adam-

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Posted 25 January 2021 - 10:15 AM

Why don't we all want to VR things?! :( 


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#919 MonK-E

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Posted 25 January 2021 - 10:39 AM

Why don't we all want to VR things?! :(


Don't get me wrong, I love a good VR engine but they weigh a lot more and have even more breakable parts. So would end up costing way more in the long run

#920 northpole

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Posted 25 January 2021 - 11:31 AM

Don't get me wrong, I love a good VR engine but they weigh a lot more and have even more breakable parts. So would end up costing way more in the long run

I agree but do a right balancing act and you can run a VR-T as a daily...  but to build for the sole purpose of the drag strips 1/4 mile? Although it'll be more than capable, it's going to be pricey keeping it in good racing condition... it's a different story if you can get engines for next to nothing if you have a sponsor (scrappy) but if it all comes out of your own pocket...  it's best to use the 4 pots...  


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#921 MonK-E

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Posted 25 January 2021 - 12:47 PM

I agree but do a right balancing act and you can run a VR-T as a daily...  but to build for the sole purpose of the drag strips 1/4 mile? Although it'll be more than capable, it's going to be pricey keeping it in good racing condition... it's a different story if you can get engines for next to nothing if you have a sponsor (scrappy) but if it all comes out of your own pocket...  it's best to use the 4 pots...


100% if I were building a daily with the amount of power I'm after it would definitely have to be a VR6 or bigger.
The good ole 4pot 20v engine should be plenty good enough for what I want as it'll spend the majority of it's life at either idle or above 6k rpm.
No need for low or mid range grunt, just top end. If the big ole holset spools at 6k it'll be good to go for what I'll be doing with it.
I doubt I'll even have vvt on the new head as that usually switches over around 5.5k

If I ever use it on the road again it will never be a daily as it'll suck balls and be a right arse to drive around town
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#922 MonK-E

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Posted 26 January 2021 - 07:45 AM

Interesting development yesterday evening. I might not need to go to a 2.0 just yet. It seems like its looking worse than it actually is.

Initial quick bore measurements are all around 0.08mm (3 thou)
With forged pistons that's right in the sweet spot.
So it looks like a quick ball hone to restore the crosshatch and a new set of rings might well do the trick.

I'll do some more in depth measurements to be absolutely sure.
Fingers crossed for the outcome, I may have been very lucky here.


Thinking about the shiny spots that indicate piston slap. What may have caused that if the PTW clearance is good would be slightly tight wrist pins.
Thinking back to putting it together I was on the fence about reeming the small ends out as the pins were on the tighter side. So this may well have been the result of that plus thermal expansion of the bronze bushes and non rifle drilled rods.

#923 northpole

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Posted 26 January 2021 - 08:47 AM

sounds like you got lucky! on the other hand you do have a spare block don't you? I would save myself the work and swap the bottom blocks... than get this one ready for the 2.0L bore out and slowly buy the needed parts build it up when all the parts are collected and when you have problems with the 1.8.. that is the time to swap the lot around...

 

this gives you breeding space (but i know you like the work) 

 

also you should really try and get a scrappy to sponsor you with engines and parts... i mean both you and your dad are into drag racing so all they'll get is extra publicity... it's a win for both parties especially if you start putting down serious times...


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#924 MonK-E

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Posted 26 January 2021 - 09:13 AM

sounds like you got lucky! on the other hand you do have a spare block don't you? I would save myself the work and swap the bottom blocks... than get this one ready for the 2.0L bore out and slowly buy the needed parts build it up when all the parts are collected and when you have problems with the 1.8.. that is the time to swap the lot around...
 
this gives you breeding space (but i know you like the work) 
 
also you should really try and get a scrappy to sponsor you with engines and parts... i mean both you and your dad are into drag racing so all they'll get is extra publicity... it's a win for both parties especially if you start putting down serious times...


Some good ideas there :Y:
Yeah very lucky.
I'll probably just ball hone this one if the bores are still straight.
I have 3 spare blocks 2 of which are ideal candidates for boring out to a 2.0 the other is unknown as I've not had it apart yet.

I think we need to get both cars in the 10s before we start searching for sponsors really. But that is the plan for this year :D
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