Intermittent starting problems Golf version 4 - Engine, Tuning and Performance - uk-mkivs

Jump to content


Photo

Intermittent starting problems Golf version 4


  • Please log in to reply
19 replies to this topic

#1 Nolia

Nolia

    Newbie

  • New Members
  • Pip
  • 71 posts
  • MKI Models

Posted 01 December 2019 - 03:03 PM

Hey guys, 

 

My apologies this might be a repeat query.

 

I have a Golf MK4 1.6l (02 plate) with AZD engine code....I am having issues with it starting for about a month or so. When I go to work in the morning at 8:45am it starts no problem, however, if I stop, say at supermarket on my way to work, and when I get back to car it just won't start. So I have resolved to leaving the engine running and covering the key with a jumper and then lock the door with 2nd key, if I have to pop into shop on my travels. When I finish work later, sometimes it fires no problem and at times it just won't. So I have to keep trying until it fires, but then I start to smell petrol. it's usually about 10 min, though I have had a 40min delay b4

 

I thought perhaps it was the fuel pump, but not sure as I hear a buzz when I open the driver door and a guy told me if u hear pump when u open the driver door it shows that it's working. 

 

I had one of the coil packs removed by AA and then replaced, and the AA guy said the plugs have some life, they should be fine till next service. It has got to the point where I avoid long distance journeys in case I get caught out. I wanna take to the garage, but just want some help so I know what could cause issues. The fault code softwares don't pick up anything too. 

Any suggestions and help will be greatly welcome. Thank you kind gents & ladies.




#2 ttg4l

ttg4l

    Just grazing

  • Full Members
  • PipPip
  • 826 posts
  • Golf IV 1.6 16v BCB 105PS

Posted 01 December 2019 - 03:32 PM

So are you saying it starts fine if it's bone cold? But struggles if it's warm? 

 

Could be a coolant temp sensor if that's the case.



#3 yurtesen

yurtesen

    Padawan

  • Full Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1145 posts
  • Finland
  • Golf IV 1.6 16v BCB 105PS

Posted 01 December 2019 - 07:54 PM

What fault code software did you use?



#4 Nolia

Nolia

    Newbie

  • New Members
  • Pip
  • 71 posts
  • MKI Models

Posted 02 December 2019 - 12:20 PM

So are you saying it starts fine if it's bone cold? But struggles if it's warm? 

 

Could be a coolant temp sensor if that's the case.

Yeah its fine when cold, even today when temp was -1.5 deg and the car was very icy, it fired straight away. The temp needle on the dashboard doesn't move erratically, i.e. it moves clockwise and then stops at 12 o'clock.



#5 Nolia

Nolia

    Newbie

  • New Members
  • Pip
  • 71 posts
  • MKI Models

Posted 02 December 2019 - 12:22 PM

What fault code software did you use?

I took it to a garage and the guy had some fancy one, definitely not VAGCOM, he said I will probably need VAGCOM software. I have a cheap one also from Amazon and it doesn't show anything. 



#6 yurtesen

yurtesen

    Padawan

  • Full Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1145 posts
  • Finland
  • Golf IV 1.6 16v BCB 105PS

Posted 02 December 2019 - 10:23 PM

@Nolia you can get KKL cable for under 10GBP and use VCDS Lite (free for personal use). If you use generic OBD software you won't go far. Perhaps there are no codes, but maybe that guy's scanner could not read VW codes. In either case if you want to keep fixing the car yourself, you will need this tool sooner or later anyway. So buy it and let us know once you make a full scan :)



#7 mur3633

mur3633

    Just grazing

  • Full Members
  • PipPip
  • 187 posts
  • Podgorica, Montenegro
  • Golf IV GTTDI 1.9 AJM 115PS

Posted 05 January 2020 - 06:43 AM

I have similar problem with TDI115, but when car stays for couple hours. Especially when cold.
What could it be?
Changed tandem pump, crankshaft sensor, fuel filter, thermostat, injectors are repaired with new gaskets, etc.

VCDS doesn't show any fault, all parameters are good.

Here is video: https://youtu.be/F6pRaaUSomo

#8 adam-

adam-

    VR6 GT35 4mo

  • Full Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10711 posts
  • Glasgow
  • Golf IV GTI 1.8T 20v AUM 150PS

Posted 08 January 2020 - 04:20 PM

I have similar problem with TDI115, but when car stays for couple hours. Especially when cold.
What could it be?
Changed tandem pump, crankshaft sensor, fuel filter, thermostat, injectors are repaired with new gaskets, etc.

VCDS doesn't show any fault, all parameters are good.

Here is video:

 

Why is that traction light on?  If ABS isn't on, it's likely a bad MAF.  Not sure how you've not got any codes with such a brutal idle.

 

Log MAF flow.  Crank sensor is fine as you can see the cluster reacting during cranking.  


facebook.com/adamforbes92, ig:@adam_g4fku, Adam's Anthracite Grey 1.8t Build Thread...

Best way to lose weight is not drinking mayonnaise/cheese/beer everyday.


#9 mur3633

mur3633

    Just grazing

  • Full Members
  • PipPip
  • 187 posts
  • Podgorica, Montenegro
  • Golf IV GTTDI 1.9 AJM 115PS

Posted 08 January 2020 - 04:23 PM

ESP light is on because I need to align G85 sensor.

#10 Nolia

Nolia

    Newbie

  • New Members
  • Pip
  • 71 posts
  • MKI Models

Posted 17 January 2020 - 03:48 PM

@Nolia you can get KKL cable for under 10GBP and use VCDS Lite (free for personal use). If you use generic OBD software you won't go far. Perhaps there are no codes, but maybe that guy's scanner could not read VW codes. In either case if you want to keep fixing the car yourself, you will need this tool sooner or later anyway. So buy it and let us know once you make a full scan :)

sorry for the late response, I did get a cable from Amazon, so will try it out.  I am assuming you have a higher chance of success in regards to reading fault codes with this option you suggest? Sorry for the late reply



#11 adam-

adam-

    VR6 GT35 4mo

  • Full Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10711 posts
  • Glasgow
  • Golf IV GTI 1.8T 20v AUM 150PS

Posted 18 January 2020 - 09:01 AM

The whole concept of the OBD protocol is that it doesn't matter what device you use, you'll always get the same 'fault code'.  It'll give you a P number, relate it to a ross-tech page specific (and more helpful) for VW stuff and see what the issue is.

 

Not all devices can connect to all addresses, so typically the common ones are supported (01 engine, 02 ABS, 03 airbag).  Fault codes are generally only helpful if they're triggered and people are obsessed with 'if the fault code says it's this, it has to be X'.  The fault code is an indication of what the problem might be.

 

By using Measuring Blocks (or live data), you can see in real time what the ECU is seeing.  For example: I had a Golf Plus the other day with bad rear ABS sensor.  Or so the fault code told me.  Graph the data using VCDS and I can see what there is a consistent intermittent reading on the graph, so I know it's the bearing (the pickup), not the sensor.

 

Codes are only triggered when specific criteria are met - they don't always exist.  My point is, you NEED to ALWAYS use live data to see what's going on.  Garages are (generally) not qualified to be knowledgable about specific cars and specific software so throw a generic SnapOff reader on to it, read X code (or even no codes), charge £50 and send you on your way.  That's NOT diagnostics.

 

Diagnostics is using ALL of the data available to you.  Wiring, oscilloscope data, live data, measuring blocks, etc to track the fault down.

 

With yours, log coolant temp when cold and watch it as it heats up.


facebook.com/adamforbes92, ig:@adam_g4fku, Adam's Anthracite Grey 1.8t Build Thread...

Best way to lose weight is not drinking mayonnaise/cheese/beer everyday.


#12 northpole

northpole

    More than a fleeting interest

  • Full Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 9766 posts
  • Suffolk
  • **-----**

Posted 18 January 2020 - 09:28 AM

good thing that isn't my car.... for one it is a 1.6 (i would burn it if it is giving me start problems) and for further more it is a 1.6.... my advise... engine swap as soon as they start giving problems... a 1.8t aum would be the better engine swap and give you less problems engine wise... it also makes the car a damn site quicker



#13 Nolia

Nolia

    Newbie

  • New Members
  • Pip
  • 71 posts
  • MKI Models

Posted 22 January 2020 - 08:57 PM

The whole concept of the OBD protocol is that it doesn't matter what device you use, you'll always get the same 'fault code'.  It'll give you a P number, relate it to a ross-tech page specific (and more helpful) for VW stuff and see what the issue is.

 

Not all devices can connect to all addresses, so typically the common ones are supported (01 engine, 02 ABS, 03 airbag).  Fault codes are generally only helpful if they're triggered and people are obsessed with 'if the fault code says it's this, it has to be X'.  The fault code is an indication of what the problem might be.

 

By using Measuring Blocks (or live data), you can see in real time what the ECU is seeing.  For example: I had a Golf Plus the other day with bad rear ABS sensor.  Or so the fault code told me.  Graph the data using VCDS and I can see what there is a consistent intermittent reading on the graph, so I know it's the bearing (the pickup), not the sensor.

 

Codes are only triggered when specific criteria are met - they don't always exist.  My point is, you NEED to ALWAYS use live data to see what's going on.  Garages are (generally) not qualified to be knowledgable about specific cars and specific software so throw a generic SnapOff reader on to it, read X code (or even no codes), charge £50 and send you on your way.  That's NOT diagnostics.

 

Diagnostics is using ALL of the data available to you.  Wiring, oscilloscope data, live data, measuring blocks, etc to track the fault down.

 

With yours, log coolant temp when cold and watch it as it heats up.

 

I will check the coolant temp when cold tomorrow b4 work. Thanks 



#14 Nolia

Nolia

    Newbie

  • New Members
  • Pip
  • 71 posts
  • MKI Models

Posted 19 February 2020 - 02:33 PM

The whole concept of the OBD protocol is that it doesn't matter what device you use, you'll always get the same 'fault code'.  It'll give you a P number, relate it to a ross-tech page specific (and more helpful) for VW stuff and see what the issue is.

 

Not all devices can connect to all addresses, so typically the common ones are supported (01 engine, 02 ABS, 03 airbag).  Fault codes are generally only helpful if they're triggered and people are obsessed with 'if the fault code says it's this, it has to be X'.  The fault code is an indication of what the problem might be.

 

By using Measuring Blocks (or live data), you can see in real time what the ECU is seeing.  For example: I had a Golf Plus the other day with bad rear ABS sensor.  Or so the fault code told me.  Graph the data using VCDS and I can see what there is a consistent intermittent reading on the graph, so I know it's the bearing (the pickup), not the sensor.

 

Codes are only triggered when specific criteria are met - they don't always exist.  My point is, you NEED to ALWAYS use live data to see what's going on.  Garages are (generally) not qualified to be knowledgable about specific cars and specific software so throw a generic SnapOff reader on to it, read X code (or even no codes), charge £50 and send you on your way.  That's NOT diagnostics.

 

Diagnostics is using ALL of the data available to you.  Wiring, oscilloscope data, live data, measuring blocks, etc to track the fault down.

 

With yours, log coolant temp when cold and watch it as it heats up.

I have checked, my job is about 2 miles away, and when I am about 1.4miles in, the temp dial is at 12 o'clock. The car starts fine, but if I was to stop say at shop on my way to work and then try to start it starts playing up.
 



#15 ttg4l

ttg4l

    Just grazing

  • Full Members
  • PipPip
  • 826 posts
  • Golf IV 1.6 16v BCB 105PS

Posted 19 February 2020 - 05:10 PM

There's two sides to the temp sensor, one for the ECU and one for your dial. The ECU side may be faulty, but you can read this using VCDS.

#16 mur3633

mur3633

    Just grazing

  • Full Members
  • PipPip
  • 187 posts
  • Podgorica, Montenegro
  • Golf IV GTTDI 1.9 AJM 115PS

Posted 07 August 2020 - 04:03 PM



I have similar problem with TDI115, but when car stays for couple hours. Especially when cold.
What could it be?
Changed tandem pump, crankshaft sensor, fuel filter, thermostat, injectors are repaired with new gaskets, etc.

VCDS doesn't show any fault, all parameters are good.

Here is video: https://youtu.be/F6pRaaUSomo


Here I am again.

Changed camshaft sensor, N75, fuel filter again, complete head with injectors seats, injector seals, MAFs, MAP, lifters, glow plugs, etc.

This time only when car stays for 2 days or more.

Don't know what to do else... Anyone?

#17 northpole

northpole

    More than a fleeting interest

  • Full Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 9766 posts
  • Suffolk
  • **-----**

Posted 08 August 2020 - 06:09 AM

@mur3633 what it only does it when the car stays sitting for over a few days? ... you got a battery drain or your battery needs replacing or a deep cycle charge,,, i would try putting it on a deep cycle charger when you're not using it for a few days, than see if it behaves after that, if it does it again after a few days pull out a multimeter and check the batteries voltage... if it is lower than 12volts than you know you need a new battery. 

 

also look into the big 3 upgrade as the cars are getting older now and ground cables might have internal corrosion causing parasitic voltage drain



#18 mur3633

mur3633

    Just grazing

  • Full Members
  • PipPip
  • 187 posts
  • Podgorica, Montenegro
  • Golf IV GTTDI 1.9 AJM 115PS

Posted 08 August 2020 - 06:16 AM

Nope, tried with another new battery Varta Silver 77Ah, same thing.

#19 northpole

northpole

    More than a fleeting interest

  • Full Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 9766 posts
  • Suffolk
  • **-----**

Posted 08 August 2020 - 06:21 AM

Nope, tried with another new battery Varta Silver 77Ah, same thing

than you need to check the car for a parasitic voltage drain... or you need to replace the starter motor, but i would start with cleaning all the ground points on the car and see if that helps... but i noticed that a worn out starter can make for hard starts... especially on a tdi.  



#20 mur3633

mur3633

    Just grazing

  • Full Members
  • PipPip
  • 187 posts
  • Podgorica, Montenegro
  • Golf IV GTTDI 1.9 AJM 115PS

Posted 15 September 2020 - 05:26 PM

It was lift pump problem.
Old pump could been heard, but when I put new Magneti Marelli MAM00013 pump I solved problem. Now car starts without any problem even after couple days.





uk-mkivs.net is an independent Volkswagen enthusiast website owned and operated by VerticalScope Inc. Content on uk-mkivs.net is generated by its users. uk-mkivs.net is not in any way affiliated with Volkswagen AG.