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VW Bora V6 4motion Fuel Pump Buzzing?


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#1 JustBaron

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Posted 03 April 2020 - 09:53 AM

Hi Chaps,

 

I've got a fuel pump load enough to force me to ask for advice.

 

I've searched similar posts on the net but can't find a definitive answer.

 

This is the second Bora 4motion I've owned and can't remember this being an issue in my previous one so here it goes..

 

Open driver door: Fuel pump primes for a few seconds. Interior dome light, dash light, door puddle light all come on.

Ignition on: Normal.

Engine on: Loud buzzing within cabin, front and rear.

Apply brake pedal: Buzzing stops from front, continues in rear.

Accelerate: Buzzing stops from front, continues in rear.

 

I believe the continuous buzzing from the rear to be the in tank fuel pump underneath the rear bench. I have had the filter checked and there are no problems.

 

I have read that the buzzing is normal and with either the engine running or stereo playing; you should not be able to hear it.

I have also read that the buzzing is a sign that the fuel pump is on its way out.

I have also read that the buzzing is normal and nothing to worry about.

 

I have not read anywhere of buzzing omitting from the front of the cabin. Now I do not know whether I have bat-like hearing that I am the only one ever to hear it; whether this is subjective or not; or I am going crazy and hearing things!

 

My questions are:

  1. Is my fuel pump dying?
  2. Do I need to check fuel pressure regulator?
  3. Is my fuel pump relay knackered?
  4. Do I have a split fuel pipe?
  5. Is there something else I need to investigate?
  6. Am I going crazy?

Thanks in advance chaps

 

Baron

 




#2 ttg4l

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Posted 03 April 2020 - 11:43 AM

Although your post is quite detailed, we ideally need more than "buzzing", since that's quite a vague description of a noise.

Any chance you can make a video/sound clip?

#3 JustBaron

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Posted 03 April 2020 - 01:50 PM

Although your post is quite detailed, we ideally need more than "buzzing", since that's quite a vague description of a noise.

Any chance you can make a video/sound clip?

Gotcha, I've taken a video in which I've managed to pickup the noise omitting from rear/fuel pump; I'd suggest turning up the volume or watching with headphones.

However I was not able to demonstrate the albeit faint noise coming from the front.
Hopefully you'll be able to get what I'm hearing from this:
 

 
Any suggestions welcome.
Thanks



#4 adam-

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Posted 03 April 2020 - 02:53 PM

It's not picking up on the camera well.  Possibly slightly noisier than stock.  How much fuel do you have?  Does it get quieter with fuel?

 

Probably pump starting to wear.


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#5 JustBaron

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Posted 03 April 2020 - 05:23 PM

It's not picking up on the camera well.  Possibly slightly noisier than stock.  How much fuel do you have?  Does it get quieter with fuel?

 

Probably pump starting to wear.

Yeah, it's a bit tricky to hear, but if you view it a couple of times it's definitely there.

I have run it full tank, half tank and little fuel and cannot say I've noticed a difference in the noise levels.

I'd say its pretty consistent no matter the fuel level.

I've been playing with getting a replacement in tank fuel pump with sender module; just wanted to put it out there in case there was anything else apart from the pump/replay/regulator to check or potentially replace. 



#6 adam-

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Posted 03 April 2020 - 05:45 PM

It doesn't sound mental.  I've been in a few 4mos and they all sound like that AFAIK.

 

Just send it! 


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#7 JustBaron

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Posted 03 April 2020 - 06:01 PM

It doesn't sound mental.  I've been in a few 4mos and they all sound like that AFAIK.

 

Just send it! 

Cheers @adam-

I'll crack on with a little investigation and replace the pump if needed.



#8 adam-

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Posted 03 April 2020 - 07:00 PM

It's hard to gauge, but I've been in a few where there's a noticable fuel pump whine.  Mine was quiet unless it was dead silent and I'd just turned on the ign and that was a Walbro 255.


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#9 JustBaron

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Posted 03 April 2020 - 07:30 PM

It's hard to gauge, but I've been in a few where there's a noticable fuel pump whine.  Mine was quiet unless it was dead silent and I'd just turned on the ign and that was a Walbro 255.

Good to know. I'll check them out thanks for the advice.



#10 ttg4l

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Posted 03 April 2020 - 07:40 PM

It's definitely louder than it should be, if it's the pump making the noise. Sounds like a pair of hair clippers to me.

 

If you've got a big screwdriver, you could take the black top cap off where the pump sits and use the big screwdriver to see if the noise is from the pump, I've never tried it but it's what I'd try. Not sure how well it'd work through the top plastic on the pump assembly though.

 

Does the car feel like it's fuel cutting at higher revs?



#11 elektrikbanana

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Posted 03 April 2020 - 08:16 PM

Sounds a bit louder than mine!

 

Notes on replacing the pump if you go down that route - ECP sell these but they're really awful, I replaced mine with a new euro car parts one and it failed a year later, and then replaced with another under warranty which lasted 6 months, in the end I bought a working used one and its been fine since, I believe genuine is around 250-300. They're easy to replace however (good example here) - make sure to use cling film or anything else waterproof to cover the back of the seats and surrounding area to avoid spills when removing the old pump (do it with a nearly empty tank).



#12 vwman

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Posted 03 April 2020 - 08:47 PM

I'm also on my second Bora 4mo and both of them have / had loud fuel pumps, but you only really notice it when the radio is off.  It's worse when you're sitting idling at traffic lights, all you can hear is that darn buzzing.  I've put Dynamat on the fuel pump cover on the current Bora; on the last one I put it under the whole of the seat bench. This does help a bit. 

 

As the noise never got worse on either car I decided I didn't have to change the pump, though no doubt that would fix it.  As Electrikbanana says, genuine is £££.  A word of warning though, the fuel pump went on my previous car, but I didn't realise (I was on a long drive at a steady speed, and unbeknown to me the car was running very lean) and the head gasket went.  This was a Vento with a Mk3 16v engine.  I've no idea whether the fuelling system is in any way similar on the Mk4, but I would suggest that if your pump gets any louder, you might want to change it.

 

I don't have any buzzing from the front...



#13 JustBaron

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Posted 04 April 2020 - 11:51 AM

Great, thanks chaps. All of your posts are genuinely appreciated.

As I mentioned before, I cannot recall the pump being so loud on my previous Bora 4motion; so even tough it may be hard to hear...and if it is the pump, it definitely is audible and yes, sounding like hair clippers!

I'd rather do something now; than possibly pump/head gasket failure.

I'll look at getting a working used one or Walbro 255 for sure; and some Dynamat for starters.

Will any Mk4 used (petrol) fuel pump fit, or are the 4motion ones different?
Thanks 


#14 ttg4l

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Posted 04 April 2020 - 12:44 PM

If it helps, the part number on my 1.6's pump assembly is 1J0919051H.

You could compare it to yours and that should hopefully answer whether they're the same.

In theory yours could be different because you'd need higher flow of fuel, but for practicality reasons VW might use the same assembly to reduce production times/costs.

#15 JustBaron

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Posted 04 April 2020 - 05:56 PM

If it helps, the part number on my 1.6's pump assembly is 1J0919051H.

You could compare it to yours and that should hopefully answer whether they're the same.

In theory yours could be different because you'd need higher flow of fuel, but for practicality reasons VW might use the same assembly to reduce production times/costs.

Thanks man, not 100% sure but it looks like the 4motion part number could be different; possibly due to your reasoning.
This is what comes up on 7zap:
Fuel-Pump-With-Sender.png

#16 northpole

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Posted 05 April 2020 - 12:49 PM

let me clarify that or you right now you will need the same model or an upgraded fuelpump from walbro... the v5, v6 and r32 engines pump more fuel around per second than any 4 cylinder engine so you will need to replace it with either an equal one or one with a higher output... I can say from experience that you'll gain a smoother engine response if you go for the upgraded walbro 255 pump it also operates a lot quieter than the OEM pump.. ps the Walbro 255 is usually used when people go for a stage 2 remap ( usually with forced induction, either turbo or supercharger)  but it won't do any harm to the fuelsystem if you decide to just replace your old noisy pump with a new one... 

 

 

ps you could pull tthe pump out and clean the filter in the bottom of that plastic housing... it probably is filthy with years if in-tank grime and slime making the pump work harder... that is if you don't want to upgrade or spend any money... than just clean it first, it may make a world of difference in operating noise... you'll still hear it prime when you turn the contact on but as soon as the engine runs it should be quiet.  If it isn't than you best replacement would be an upgrade walbro 255 pump.  



#17 JustBaron

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Posted 05 April 2020 - 02:36 PM

let me clarify that or you right now you will need the same model or an upgraded fuelpump from walbro... the v5, v6 and r32 engines pump more fuel around per second than any 4 cylinder engine so you will need to replace it with either an equal one or one with a higher output... I can say from experience that you'll gain a smoother engine response if you go for the upgraded walbro 255 pump it also operates a lot quieter than the OEM pump.. ps the Walbro 255 is usually used when people go for a stage 2 remap ( usually with forced induction, either turbo or supercharger)  but it won't do any harm to the fuelsystem if you decide to just replace your old noisy pump with a new one... 

 

 

ps you could pull tthe pump out and clean the filter in the bottom of that plastic housing... it probably is filthy with years if in-tank grime and slime making the pump work harder... that is if you don't want to upgrade or spend any money... than just clean it first, it may make a world of difference in operating noise... you'll still hear it prime when you turn the contact on but as soon as the engine runs it should be quiet.  If it isn't than you best replacement would be an upgrade walbro 255 pump.  

Thanks man, great advice.

I think I may opt for the Walbro 255 fuel pump, anyone know of a respected seller?



#18 JustBaron

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Posted 05 April 2020 - 06:28 PM

As in is the Walbro 255 universal, or is there a specific model for the 2.8 4motion?

Will this do the trick :https://www.ebay.co....CE/153125313135



#19 northpole

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Posted 05 April 2020 - 07:32 PM

It will do the trick but you'll have to split the oem pump and put that inside... on my mk3 golf vr6 I did the exact same. It was a direct fit to replace the oem pump within that plastic housing... but if I was you I would ask for the dimensions and check it with your oem pump... I can't recall the dimensions

#20 JustBaron

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Posted 06 April 2020 - 10:37 AM

It will do the trick but you'll have to split the oem pump and put that inside... on my mk3 golf vr6 I did the exact same. It was a direct fit to replace the oem pump within that plastic housing... but if I was you I would ask for the dimensions and check it with your oem pump... I can't recall the dimensions

Gotcha, are all the Walbro 255 pumps fitted in this way; i.e. using the OEM housing; or are there replacement (complete swap) units available?



#21 northpole

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Posted 06 April 2020 - 10:47 AM

There are complete swap units available but they lack the fuel level sensor...

#22 JustBaron

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Posted 06 April 2020 - 11:14 AM

There are complete swap units available but they lack the fuel level sensor...

Right, so presumably the best way forward would be to do what you previously mentioned.

Find a Walbro 255 that will fit; and install it using the original OEM housing?

Just need to fit a compatible fuel pump then. 



#23 northpole

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Posted 06 April 2020 - 02:06 PM

That is about right...
The reason those cars that don't have the fuel level sensor in the tank is simple... they are usually track cars and have fitted a fuel cell that has a separate fuel level sensor... so they made one that replaces the oem Bosh fuel pumps...

I think demon -tweaks are a one of their main suppliers here in the UK... they might be able to get you the right one.

#24 JustBaron

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Posted 06 April 2020 - 02:13 PM

That is about right...
The reason those cars that don't have the fuel level sensor in the tank is simple... they are usually track cars and have fitted a fuel cell that has a separate fuel level sensor... so they made one that replaces the oem Bosh fuel pumps...

I think demon -tweaks are a one of their main suppliers here in the UK... they might be able to get you the right one.

Lovely stuff, again thanks for the info.

I've posted demon-tweaks an email, as well as a couple of other UK Walbro suppliers.

Once I've tracked one down and got it installed; I'll upload another video with hopefully a massive reduction in annoying buzzing levels!


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#25 JustBaron

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Posted 10 April 2020 - 08:12 AM

Good morning chaps,
 
I've read a bit about the Walbro 255 install steps and would like to double check a couple of points.

 

I'm going to edge on the side of caution, so planning on getting a pre-owned pump/housing from eBay, installing the new Walbro pump in that first; then swap the pump units over.
 
The part number for my fuel pump is 1J0 919 051 G but there aren't many cheap enough second hand ones about.

  • Can I use 1J0 919 051 H instead?; as long as it came from a petrol (I've found one from a 1.8T).
  • Am I right that if installed correctly within the OEM housing, there won't be any issues running with less that 1/4 tank of fuel or cornering?

Presumably the housing would be the same (connectors, sender unit, etc.)?
 
Cheers



#26 adam-

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Posted 10 April 2020 - 08:18 AM

1.8t pumps are different.  You have a saddle pump as it's 4wd.  Walbros are noisy.  If you're wanting silent, just cover it in dynamat.

 

If you're needing a 2.8 pump I'll be pulling mine to replace for turboness anyway.


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#27 JustBaron

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Posted 10 April 2020 - 08:59 AM

1.8t pumps are different.  You have a saddle pump as it's 4wd.  Walbros are noisy.  If you're wanting silent, just cover it in dynamat.
 
If you're needing a 2.8 pump I'll be pulling mine to replace for turboness anyway.

 
I'm after a quieter fuel pump really, but now have differing opinions on the noise level of the Walbro 255 pump...
 

I can say from experience that you'll gain a smoother engine response if you go for the upgraded walbro 255 pump it also operates a lot quieter than the OEM pump


So I can either clean the existing pump; cover it with Dynamat or replace with a Walbro 255 pump within the existing housing...?

#28 northpole

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Posted 10 April 2020 - 09:04 AM

I agree with Adam but not on the noise part mine ran silently in the OEM pump housing... but when mounted outside that they are loud....

Ps take his offer as that'll be a direct swap ;) and if you clean the filter in the bottom you also make sure it actually has less restrictions sucking up the fuel thus running quieter
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#29 adam-

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Posted 10 April 2020 - 09:06 AM

I've got a Walbro in my 1.8t and it's noisier than stock.  Unless your OEM pump is flipped, you should not notice a difference in engine response.  Fuel pressure is kept constant and providing the pump isn't on it's last legs or is close to being maxed out, swapping it out for a different unit will have no effect whatsover on performance.

 

You could tie 8 Bosch 044s in parallel or have 1 OEM pump and the only different is the noise.  Fuel pressure remains constant.


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#30 JustBaron

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Posted 10 April 2020 - 09:14 AM

I've got a Walbro in my 1.8t and it's noisier than stock.  Unless your OEM pump is flipped, you should not notice a difference in engine response.  Fuel pressure is kept constant and providing the pump isn't on it's last legs or is close to being maxed out, swapping it out for a different unit will have no effect whatsover on performance.

 

You could tie 8 Bosch 044s in parallel or have 1 OEM pump and the only different is the noise.  Fuel pressure remains constant.

 

Thanks man

I'm happy with the performance, it's just the noise that's doing my head in. 

I think having a direct replacement unit will give me a decent set of options.

So give me a shout if you want to talk pounds.

Cheers guys







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