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Cleaning your intake manifold & egr valve


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#1 Bhavick

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Posted 21 April 2020 - 08:42 PM

Am thinking of giving my egr and manifold a clean soon and was wondering what you guys used to clean inside the manifold. Because of the shape how did you guys get right inside to clean it?

Am going to buy this brake cleaner for both parts , hope it's ok?

https://www.amazon.c....7498718&sr=8-1


#2 dannyboy1987

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Posted 21 April 2020 - 08:48 PM

Just pour brake cleaner into the valves that are closed to the top leave it to soak for about 30mins and use a air line to blow out the dirty fluid and get a small pick to scrape the carbon of and then use a toothbrush to give a bit of gentle scrub then manually rotate the engine to close the valves that are open and repeat the process until your satisfied. MAKE SURE THE VALVES ARE CLOSED BEFORE YOU POUR ANYTHING IN

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#3 dannyboy1987

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Posted 21 April 2020 - 08:50 PM

That's how I done it on my 2.0 tfsi because there notorious for carbon build up

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#4 northpole

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Posted 22 April 2020 - 06:43 AM

or you take the parts off, scrape out all the big stuff and soak the inside with a foaming ovencleaner (MR. Muscle or any other cheaper variant)...  let it soak for 30 minutes than take a jetwasher to it... I did mine back in the days at the jetwash at ASDA (yeah i didn't want that crap anywhere around my house)...  but be aware the soot stains, and it'll fly everywhere while jetwashing so wear dark clothes or stuff you don't care about. The intake and exhaust ports on the head,  i just scraped clean, than used 100% acetone and 4 old cloths to clean those up... that way nothing went into the engine.



#5 Bhavick

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Posted 22 April 2020 - 07:46 AM

or you take the parts off, scrape out all the big stuff and soak the inside with a foaming ovencleaner (MR. Muscle or any other cheaper variant)...  let it soak for 30 minutes than take a jetwasher to it... I did mine back in the days at the jetwash at ASDA (yeah i didn't want that crap anywhere around my house)...  but be aware the soot stains, and it'll fly everywhere while jetwashing so wear dark clothes or stuff you don't care about. The intake and exhaust ports on the head,  i just scraped clean, than used 100% acetone and 4 old cloths to clean those up... that way nothing went into the engine.

 

Did you completely remove the head to clean the intake ports?



#6 northpole

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Posted 22 April 2020 - 09:37 AM

yes i did but that was because I went stupid and did a complete seal and gasket change on the engine, than combined that with a new clutch kit, waterpump, timing belt kit and aux. kit... so basically i had the complete engine apart and i cleaned all the boostpipes, the intercooler, replaced all the vacuum lines with silicone versions, replaced all the glow plugs etc etc etc.. it was expensive, but i bought the car with 70K (at a laughable price) but the clutch needed replacing plus it had an oil leak.. so instead of looking for the leak i replaced everything... it made it to 470k but i had to replace the clutch again 250k... I even replaced all the fluids (coolant, brake fluid, oil, gearbox, oil, powersteering oil) and flushed them all before dropping the old fluids, than flushed them again... so when i was done the engine ran like a new one.

 

PS after i cleaned all the big soot from the head i chucked it in a dishwasher to make sure it was clean

 

Basically i spend about 600 pounds in new parts including everything i needed and that was with a 40% discount... ( one of the reasons why i used cheap ovencleaner to get rid of the soot buildups) 

 

 

PPS if you remove the intake and exhaust manifold, you can clean all the ports but you don't have to remove the exhaust side if you don't want to...exhaust is where the soot comes out so that'll soon be dirty again



#7 Bhavick

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Posted 22 April 2020 - 11:01 AM

yes i did but that was because I went stupid and did a complete seal and gasket change on the engine, than combined that with a new clutch kit, waterpump, timing belt kit and aux. kit... so basically i had the complete engine apart and i cleaned all the boostpipes, the intercooler, replaced all the vacuum lines with silicone versions, replaced all the glow plugs etc etc etc.. it was expensive, but i bought the car with 70K (at a laughable price) but the clutch needed replacing plus it had an oil leak.. so instead of looking for the leak i replaced everything... it made it to 470k but i had to replace the clutch again 250k... I even replaced all the fluids (coolant, brake fluid, oil, gearbox, oil, powersteering oil) and flushed them all before dropping the old fluids, than flushed them again... so when i was done the engine ran like a new one.

 

PS after i cleaned all the big soot from the head i chucked it in a dishwasher to make sure it was clean

 

Basically i spend about 600 pounds in new parts including everything i needed and that was with a 40% discount... ( one of the reasons why i used cheap ovencleaner to get rid of the soot buildups) 

 

 

PPS if you remove the intake and exhaust manifold, you can clean all the ports but you don't have to remove the exhaust side if you don't want to...exhaust is where the soot comes out so that'll soon be dirty again

 

Thanks for the info northpole i appreciate it:-) I reckon am gonna have to do some more reading before i feel comfortable enough to clean the head, i initially wanted to clean the egr and manifold but it's no point doing half a job and then risking some loosend debris going in to the engine and damaging it. For the EGR i was going to use this break cleaner:

 

https://www.amazon.c...uct_top?ie=UTF8

 

Do you reckon that will be suitable or will be it too strong to use?


Edited by Bhavick, 22 April 2020 - 11:26 AM.


#8 northpole

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Posted 22 April 2020 - 11:07 AM

it'll be just fine mate... but if you are going to soak it get a 10 litre or a 5 litre can of brake cleaner... if you need it as an aerosol you can just put it in an hand-pressurised pump sprayer( a cheapy plant sprayer from any supermarket will do the trick) 



#9 dannyboy1987

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Posted 22 April 2020 - 11:44 AM

or you take the parts off, scrape out all the big stuff and soak the inside with a foaming ovencleaner (MR. Muscle or any other cheaper variant)... let it soak for 30 minutes than take a jetwasher to it... I did mine back in the days at the jetwash at ASDA (yeah i didn't want that crap anywhere around my house)... but be aware the soot stains, and it'll fly everywhere while jetwashing so wear dark clothes or stuff you don't care about. The intake and exhaust ports on the head, i just scraped clean, than used 100% acetone and 4 old cloths to clean those up... that way nothing went into the engine.

What is mr muscle oven cleaner good for removing soot because I was there for ages with brake cleaner on mk5 gti

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#10 northpole

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Posted 22 April 2020 - 11:53 AM

What is mr muscle oven cleaner good for removing soot because I was there for ages with brake cleaner on mk5 gti

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Yes it works a charm... it's the lye in the product that cuts through it and turns it into soap so it will need a good wash afterwards... but if you got some stuck in corners the plus of it is it just burns off and when it does it converts into little dry soot particles...

One minus it has is that it does eat it's way into aluminium but the casted parts are thick enough so it doesn't cause a problem if you rinse it out every 30 minutes. It is one of the reasons why I stated let it soak for max 30 minutes... than wash the part out... if needs be repeat... but every 30 minutes it needs to be rinsed out. I tested it on a casted part and after 40 minutes it started to stain...

#11 dannyboy1987

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Posted 22 April 2020 - 12:09 PM

Nice 1 thanks for the advice

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#12 Bhavick

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Posted 22 May 2020 - 11:13 AM

I replaced the EGR valve yesterday and was quiet surprised to see how much gunk had built up inside the manifold. 
 
 
 
Would you say this is about normal for a car that has done roughly about 150K miles? I know it needs cleaning but as some of you have already mentioned you need to clean the head as well which am not competent enough to do as this point but saying that i have read loads of threads about this on the forum and no one has come back and said that some loose debri has flown in to the engine after cleaning just the manifold so am wondering if it's worth the risk or is better to leave well alone unless your gonna do both? Also is there any actual performance increase or is just peace of mind knowing it's not gunked up inside?


#13 northpole

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Posted 22 May 2020 - 12:21 PM

Yeah it is normal for gunk to built up especially if you only do short trips... and it hasn't been cleaned out ever...

Yes you need to take the Iintake off to clean the intake ports on the head.. exhaust side will also have it but can be left whatever collects there will overtime be blown away although it might lead to blocking the catalytic converter. So if you ask me remove the lot and clean it all... you will need new exhaust and intake bolts and gaskets.

But if you can't be arsed a terraclean (110 pounds) will clean the head,but you've now seen what it will remove from the head... best to clean it manually if you ask me.

#14 adam-

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Posted 22 May 2020 - 12:39 PM

The exhaust ports will not be clogged.


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#15 Evil

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Posted 22 May 2020 - 12:50 PM

The golf manifold I Mr Muscle'd, at length, the passat one I set light to.
Fire is much more fun than foam, if you'll excuse the alliteration.

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#16 northpole

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Posted 22 May 2020 - 12:57 PM

The exhaust ports will not be clogged.

Actually they can be and I wished I had taken pictures from mine... remember I did mine at a stupid mileage? The intake was being stubborn so I removed both the intake and the exhaust manifold to have better access... both were equally clogged, granted exhaust side was dry but clogged up also... it happens when you stop using the motorways... the stuff just collects and collects...

I blocked my egr so it didn't happen again, than I made an oil catch can myself that I never plumbed in as I stopped using the car for work.

#17 Bhavick

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Posted 22 May 2020 - 01:03 PM

The golf manifold I Mr Muscle'd, at length, the passat one I set light to.
Fire is much more fun than foam, if you'll excuse the alliteration.

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So when you did your manifold you never did the intake ports on head?



#18 Evil

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Posted 22 May 2020 - 01:12 PM

So when you did your manifold you never did the intake ports on head?

Nope. Just manifold and egr.
I'm not as experienced with these cars as Adam or northpole so I'd follow their advice over mine..



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#19 Bhavick

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Posted 26 May 2020 - 09:54 AM

After looking at my inlet manifold and seeing how much carbon build is in there I've decided i would like to try and clean it, i know many of you recommend cleaning the intake ports on the head aswell to prevent any loose debri from dropping down in to the cylinders and potentially damaging the block. I know this has been discussed many times on the forum but I've got a couple of questions i would like to ask. (Mines a MK4 TDI PD100 ATD)

Is it absolutely necessary to remove the head to carry out this work because I've heard that the head bolts and head gasket are a one time use and at this point i can't really afford to replace them? Having said that leaving the head on and trying to see in to each intake port from behind the engine seems quiet difficult, if anyone's got any tips on doing it this way please let me know!

I know you have to remove the engine valve cover but when you remove this do you have to replace the gasket?

People have mentioned that you need to close each port by turning the engine with a crankshaft pulley tool. Where's the best place to get one of these from? Also when turning the engine do you turn it clockwise or anti clockwise as i don't want to mess with the timing? Any other things i need to pay special attention to when turning the engine over? I know when the cam lobes are facing upwards that means that particular cylinder is closed.

Now in terms of actually cleaning the intake ports I've watched a couple of videos and one guy sprayed some Holts EGR and Carb cleaner in and then cleaned out each port with some small plastic brushes, not hard bristle brushes as he said you don't want to scrape the inside of the ports.

Lastly i know when you are working on any given port make sure you cover up all the other ports with some tape to block them off and stop any crap going in to from the intake port your cleaning and also make sure you put the engine cover back on to protect that as well.

This is as much as i know so far and if i have missed anything at all please let me know.

 

Thanks


Edited by Bhavick, 26 May 2020 - 09:56 AM.


#20 northpole

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Posted 26 May 2020 - 10:39 AM

No you don't have to remove the head it can stay put... I removed mine because I bought a complete engine gasket kit so i took my whole engine apart... the first time i cleaned it i didn't take of much more than both the intake and exhaust manifold, than scraped away the buildup from all the holes and to make it clear the exhaust manifold side wasn't gummed up but had a nice buildup of dry soot... that got scraped of than i had to clean the intake manifold holes as they were gummed up..

if you really want to clean the head out without removing it , your DIY options are::
- Seafoam (follow directions on the canister)
- Carbcleaner or water: with a running the engine at idle, spraying a full can of carb cleaner (or de-ionised water) down the air intake pipe ( in short bursts , water has to be in a hand pressurised sprayer)

Or you go for the non DIY option :
- Terraclean ( best known most expensive at 110 pounds for the 1.9 tdi)
- Engine De-carbon service ( less known, cheaper at 80 pounds for the 1.9tdi, uses a mixture of de-ionosed water and something similar to Seafoam)

Both will do a better job than the carb-cleaner, not to sure about the seafoam option... i haven't done that one myself on a mk4 tdi but have done it on an old Isuzu trooper 3.1 tdi and the head was really clean afterwards. and that at less than 13 pounds a bottle you can't really fault it... ps the stuff has petroleum in it but i don't know how much of it is just petroleum. Oww and if you want to give Seafoam a try, make sure you do it somewhere it is well secluded but open area, as it steams out of the exhaust like you are trying to make the world disappear in a smelly fog cloud.
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#21 Bhavick

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Posted 26 May 2020 - 11:58 AM

@northpole

 

What tool do i need to turn the crankshaft? Which way to turn it clockwise or anti clockwise? Sorry if this is a really dumb question but when you do turn the cams so the lobes are facing upwards, how many lobes have to be facing upwards so you know one one cylinder is completely closed?

Thanks



#22 northpole

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Posted 26 May 2020 - 12:14 PM

If you take of the timing belt cover you will find the timing marks once they are all aligned you check the gearbox side, there is a bung remove it you should see a few marks on the flywheel also ( there is room for play on the flywheel by the way about 3 to 5 teeth, it's for advance or retarded timing)  but it should be in view... note: if the timing side is all set dead on the marks, all you need to see are the marks on the flywheel through the inspection hole.

 

and you always rotate the engine clockwise, a big spanner with the right size for the bolt or a socket with an extender so you don't have to kill yourself trying to turn the engine to get it at TDC... (Compression will make it harder to turn at times)  full rotation is 720 degrees by the way on the crankshaft pulley, and that would be equal to 360 at the flywheel.

 

ps if you miss the marks, it'll need turning some more until they line up again, do not move it back!







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