[Mk4 Golf] Shaky engine - Engine, Tuning and Performance - uk-mkivs

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#1 DerPanzerWagen

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Posted 06 August 2020 - 07:38 PM

Following on from this topic: Compression down in cyl. 3

 

EVAP system has been fixed and everything else sorted but, the engine is still suffering a bit with the shakes. The compression is still the same averaging out as 9bar per cylinder across the block. No misfires detected or jumpy idle either. 

 

What to look at next in the engine bay is the question...

 

  1. Engine mounts look okay or does this mean absolutely nothing? If you lean on the engine when it's revving under 2500rpm it does go away. It's not that noticeable between 2500 and 3100rpm. It stops shaking around 3200rpm and above. Gearbox mount is a year old but the rest are original. 
  2. The exhaust has been checked for leaks but there's nothing coming out or going in where it shouldn't be but they have found a pending cat error code which they weren't getting before the evap valve was changed. Will have to get an emissions test next to see if it's out of range as no cat rattle or smells. All lambda sensors are new and working as expected when you create a vacuum leak.

The code I got a couple of times was p0420 and they had p1680x. 

 

Are we getting somewhere with this?




#2 adam-

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Posted 06 August 2020 - 08:38 PM

Nothing will fix a shakey engine except properly fixing the air leak you have.


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#3 DerPanzerWagen

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Posted 06 August 2020 - 10:01 PM

Nothing will fix a shakey engine except properly fixing the air leak you have.

 

No air leaks. Been trying to hunt one down for much of today. Can't get this car to smoke one out either as all the obvious places are closed since changing the evap stuff. Not even any leaks in the exhaust or around the post cat lambdas either. From experience it doesn't take forever to find an air leak when you go hunting for one.

 

Bit annoying really as I thought something like that should be there but we find it's not.

 

The only leak we can find is coming from the power steering but that's an easy fix! 



#4 northpole

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Posted 07 August 2020 - 12:46 PM

if those are the original mounts the galvanised rubber in them might have seen better days... you can replace them to see if the shaking goes away ECP sells them from lemforder they are quite oke but I've had to bring one back because it didn't centre right... it wasn't cast properly... they replaced it and that one was fine so i suggest if you go that route, to open the box in store and check it right there saves you from getting stuck... the one that wasn't cast right was the battery side one, the other was straight. 



#5 DerPanzerWagen

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Posted 07 August 2020 - 01:31 PM

if those are the original mounts the galvanised rubber in them might have seen better days... you can replace them to see if the shaking goes away ECP sells them from lemforder they are quite oke but I've had to bring one back because it didn't centre right... it wasn't cast properly... they replaced it and that one was fine so i suggest if you go that route, to open the box in store and check it right there saves you from getting stuck... the one that wasn't cast right was the battery side one, the other was straight. 

 

Just tried GSF and ECP but they no longer sell the mounts. Off to ebay. 



#6 northpole

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Posted 08 August 2020 - 05:51 AM

What they dropped them from their stock? must be a reason for that... 



#7 DerPanzerWagen

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Posted 08 August 2020 - 06:56 PM

What they dropped them from their stock? must be a reason for that... 

 

It could be dodgy parts. It's happened before ages ago with Lemforder wishbones but that didn't last long. GSF don't stock much in for the mk4 Golf now. Not since about a year ago when I complained to them for sending a MAF sensor through the post in just it's outer box. 


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#8 northpole

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Posted 09 August 2020 - 11:07 AM

It could be dodgy parts. It's happened before ages ago with Lemforder wishbones but that didn't last long. GSF don't stock much in for the mk4 Golf now. Not since about a year ago when I complained to them for sending a MAF sensor through the post in just it's outer box.

Yeah that is what I think as I did point out to check them in store...

#9 adam-

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Posted 09 August 2020 - 06:44 PM

galvanised rubber in them might 

 

The flip is galvanised rubber?


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#10 northpole

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Posted 09 August 2020 - 07:21 PM

The flip is galvanised rubber?

You might find it is a process to harden rubber so it lasts longer and is stronger... vulcanised rubber is another process to achieve the same... but usually the rubbers in engine mounts are galvanised.... not vulcanised.... meaning the rubber compound has lead in it...

#11 adam-

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Posted 10 August 2020 - 04:42 AM

Galvanising is zinc, but not sure how that could stick to rubber?


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#12 northpole

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Posted 10 August 2020 - 05:39 AM

Galvanising is zinc, but not sure how that could stick to rubber?

don't ask me i didn't invent it.. nor did I name the process... all i know is that the rubber has lead in it instead of polymeres like vulcanised rubber. 



#13 ttg4l

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Posted 10 August 2020 - 09:27 AM

I always thought galvanisation was adding a coating of zinc to another metal, not anything rubber related.

But maybe the terms get loosely mixed up on the internet.

#14 northpole

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Posted 10 August 2020 - 09:57 AM

I always thought galvanisation was adding a coating of zinc to another metal, not anything rubber related.

But maybe the terms get loosely mixed up on the internet.

Hence the reason why i pointed out the difference between the 2 types of rubber compounds... one has lead in the rubber the other has polymers the difference? When you cut the rubber that is galvanised it has things that closely look like metal flakes it actually is lead... polymers (vulcanised rubber) you either can't see or they are white...

I was baffled too. thought it was vulcanisation only but apparently they call it galavanisation and the process apparently is cheaper than using polymers... but has about the same result...

Like i said i didn't invent it nor did I name it, I got told this by a bloke that worked as a chemist in a factory making rubber bushes.

But it is known as vulcanisation to most... I said the same as Adam- when he said no it's galvanised rubber... he than showed me some pictures of the different materials online...

#15 DerPanzerWagen

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Posted 17 August 2020 - 07:41 AM

Car has been back a few days from the garage. All was okay when I picked it up even though it felt a bit odd with the steering. No vibrations and importantly, no engine light. That is, until yesterday when the vibrations returned. This rules out engine mounts now as after a few trips into town and back when I got the car home caused no issues.

 

So now engine light and the shakes have returned plus I now have overheating. The best bit happened last night though. It's was really wet yesterday and there is a road I use regularly which gets about 5cm of standing water on it. (The road is quite straight and fairly smooth.) Everyone can drive through it without a problem at fairly normal speed.

 

Except mine as the engine cut out in the middle of it. Came as quite a surprise too as I've been in far worse with on coming traffic where the water has been chucked over the bonnet. (There's a post somewhere on site with a video.) Thought it might have been deeper so opened the door to find it didn't reach the sills. Took about 10 minutes to restart the car but had to resort to a hard start causing loads of smoke out the back. Not sure if this is just a coincidence or something caused from getting wet. It certainly wasn't deep enough to get a whole load back through the exhaust outlet but other than the exhaust, nothing else should have been effected.

 

Am off under the car to inspect now rain has stopped.



#16 northpole

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Posted 17 August 2020 - 09:45 AM

if i was you i would change the fuel filter and make sure the fuel-pump is running properly... actually pull it from the tank, clean it up, than put it back and add a fuelsystem cleaner or injector cleaner to the fuel (or LiquiMoly do a good one, but so do Comma/Millers and a few other brands)... 

 

because if the bucking/shaking goes away at higher rpm that must be a problem with fuel delivery at lower rpm if the engine mounts are all good.  



#17 adam-

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Posted 17 August 2020 - 05:04 PM

What codes?


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#18 DerPanzerWagen

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Posted 17 August 2020 - 05:24 PM

if i was you i would change the fuel filter and make sure the fuel-pump is running properly... actually pull it from the tank, clean it up, than put it back and add a fuelsystem cleaner or injector cleaner to the fuel (or LiquiMoly do a good one, but so do Comma/Millers and a few other brands)... 

 

Fuel filter replaced, cleaners inserted and pump checked before yesterday. (Well, did the cleaner 2 weeks ago.)


Edited by DerPanzerWagen, 17 August 2020 - 05:26 PM.


#19 northpole

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Posted 17 August 2020 - 05:55 PM

Fuel filter replaced, cleaners inserted and pump checked before yesterday. (Well, did the cleaner 2 weeks ago.)

Pull the injectors and have them cleaned ultrasonicly
If that doesn't help than you'll need to check your vacuum system...

I can't think of anything else that causes that behaviour at idle...

#20 DerPanzerWagen

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Posted 18 August 2020 - 06:29 AM

I can't think of anything else that causes that behaviour at idle...

 

I can... A naff mechanic.



#21 DerPanzerWagen

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Posted 18 August 2020 - 06:46 AM

What codes?

 

The p0420: the smoking ghost.



#22 northpole

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Posted 18 August 2020 - 07:33 AM

Possible but most know how to put stuff back on the right way around...

#23 northpole

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Posted 18 August 2020 - 07:36 AM

Well worst cases would be a faulty lambda sensor or control unit... but like I said before it could be sticky injectors... at least taking them out and have them cleaned ultrasonicly wouldn't break the bank and is a lot cheaper than buying a new lambda sensor...

#24 DerPanzerWagen

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Posted 18 August 2020 - 11:22 PM

Car went into VW today for 2 reasons:

 

  1. had exhaust checked over for pre-MOT checks and everything is fine down there and it would all pass. No rusted out spots, leaks, noises, smoke or smells. 
  2. to ring head office.


#25 adam-

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Posted 19 August 2020 - 06:00 AM

What are trims? Lambda deviation between banks?  Video of the issue?


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#26 DerPanzerWagen

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Posted 19 August 2020 - 08:11 AM

What are trims? Lambda deviation between banks?  Video of the issue?

 

Not a bad idea to do as it's now raining...



#27 northpole

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Posted 19 August 2020 - 08:34 AM

Rain or not you can sit in the car and use VCDS to log it...  video can be made when it stops raining



#28 DerPanzerWagen

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Posted 19 August 2020 - 10:11 PM

Rain or not you can sit in the car and use VCDS to log it...  video can be made when it stops raining

 

Tried starting - very little crank. Tried again...

Dead.

No crank.

Faulty ECU - no communication with module.



#29 northpole

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Posted 20 August 2020 - 06:31 AM

Tried starting - very little crank. Tried again...

Dead.

No crank.

Faulty ECU - no communication with module.

and that was what i said 3 posts ago, faulty control unit aka ECU, i would just buy a used ECU and sort out the IMMO... 

but i would only do that after i removed the ecu cable and put it back ( to make sure it is connected properly and the connector isn't filled with dirt or corrosion. 



#30 DerPanzerWagen

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Posted 20 August 2020 - 01:18 PM

and that was what i said 3 posts ago, faulty control unit aka ECU, i would just buy a used ECU and sort out the IMMO... 

but i would only do that after i removed the ecu cable and put it back ( to make sure it is connected properly and the connector isn't filled with dirt or corrosion. 

 

Aye, noticed the post. Did ask when it was in the garage 2 weeks ago for them to check all grounds and clean them up. So wondering now if they've not secured one properly or they've not bothered to do it. (Wouldn't surprise me.)







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