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Suspension overhaul... Uprated OEM parts


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#1 NorthernPhil

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Posted 17 September 2020 - 08:07 PM

So... my lovely bargain-basement JOM coilovers have been on the car for NINE YEARS, and have only just started to fail... blessed by the old gods, it seems.

 

At any rate, the time has come for a change, and as the car is rapidly approaching 150,000 miles I'm going to be doing a suspension overhaul at the same time. Just trying to select the right bits now... could do with some input from the hive mind.

 

The intention is to go for OEM Upgrade, but I'm open to suggestions. Need some help filling in the blanks, anyway. This is what I'm thinking so far (multiple option where I'm not sure what to go with):

 

  • Coilovers:
    • AP 2WD kit

 

  • Top mounts:
    • Seat Leon Cupra R

 

  • Control Arm Front Bush:
    • Standard
    • Poly – SuperPro?
    • OEM Uprated – ???

 

  • Control Arm Rear Bush
    • Audi TT solid bush 

 

  • ARB Bushes (23mm)
    • Standard
    • Poly – SuperPro?
    • OEM Uprated – LCR?

 

  • Rear Beam Bush
    • Seat Leon Cupra R [did it ever get settled if these were different to the Ibiza Cupra R items?].

 

  • Rear Top Mount
    • Standard [unless anyone knows of an option?]

 

 

Any help you guys can give would be greatly appreciated.




#2 Gti Fly

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Posted 17 September 2020 - 09:43 PM

Fit a decent sized rear ARB. It makes the front end much more direct to steering inputs

<a href="https://uk-mkivs.net/...d-0-60-569secs/">Click for pics of my car</a>
Shoulda got a 150 tdi - everyone knows they are best..

 


#3 NorthernPhil

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Posted 17 September 2020 - 09:49 PM

While a rear ARB is on the cards for later, for now I just want to renew/un-flip the  suspension so it passes the MoT in November.



#4 northpole

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Posted 18 September 2020 - 06:53 AM

if you want to just refresh it, new bushes or fit and forget forever polybushes... the choice is up to you... that all said... there are PSB bushes that are cheaper than the 2 options you are looking at... also they are a bit softer than them and are for fast road use... meaning they last longer than oem bushes, are easy to install, and the best bit... they don't allow for extra vibrations to travel into the steeringwheel or cabin... 

 

and at the moment they have a sale on...  that is what i would go for... upgraded polybushed suspension that enables more control, yet is soft enough to keep the comfort, regardless of the suspension you are looking at... 



#5 NorthernPhil

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Posted 18 September 2020 - 11:04 AM

PSB bushes sound like a winner, then. Would you still go with the LCR top mounts?

#6 northpole

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Posted 18 September 2020 - 12:07 PM

Yeah i would, ps i would also grab some new engine mounts, and dog-bone mount that in combination with all the bushings in the front will stiffen the front up... i also would take the advise given earlier and add an extra Whiteline rear arb into the mix,  to stiffen up the rear (and that would also get PSB bushes on the rest of the suspension)  as you'll be able to push the car harder only to notice the backend is extra loose because the front can take more abuse. 



#7 NorthernPhil

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Posted 18 September 2020 - 12:37 PM

Aye. Dogbone I was gonna do, probably subframe mounts too. Rear arb can wait a bit... at the mo the priority is "get it into MoT passing state" plus items that are convenient to do at the same time (also, probably don't have the cash to do a rear arb in addition to everything else).

#8 Karim

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Posted 19 September 2020 - 02:15 PM

what wishbone bush press kit are you using? I'm looking for one that will do the front and back bush for the wishbone. DOnt want to fork out £60 on one that doesn't work with the VAG sizes



#9 NorthernPhil

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Posted 19 September 2020 - 02:41 PM

@Karim Looks like the PSB bushes don't need pressing in, as they're two piece.

@northpole Any idea how to tell if I need the 72mm or 69mm rear beam bush?

Also... I made the mistake of looking at the KW v1 kit when mooching through AwesomeGTI's selection... now I can't decide whether to stick with the originam AP idea, or shell out the extra for the v1s!

#10 northpole

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Posted 21 September 2020 - 06:38 AM

nope you'll need to get under the car and use a vernier caliper to make sure... the thing is because the cars are past a certain age you don't know if the lot has been replaced for bigger or not... so always make sure you measure it..

 

about you AP/KW conundrum:  well are you willing to buy suspension at the price of buying another mk4?

is it for a daily or is it for a show/track project car?

is it worth doing that as if you ever sell the car the fact that you have premium suspension isn't a plus... unless you break it and sell the parts off..

 

so eventually it is up to you and what you want to spend no-one can make that decision for you. 



#11 NorthernPhil

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Posted 22 September 2020 - 06:51 AM

Well, I intend to keep the car until it's totally dead (hopefully not for a long while) as I have no reason to change it.

Went with KW V1s in the end... DPM had them for only a little more than the APs, and much cheaper than anywhere else. Just gotta sit twiddling my thumbs now... I didn't realise KW were made to order.

#12 northpole

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Posted 22 September 2020 - 10:08 AM

it is the way it is... in the meantime get the other parts you need to do it all in one go...it will make a big difference to how the car handles. 



#13 NorthernPhil

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Posted 23 September 2020 - 05:30 PM

Oh yeah, fully intend to get everything together in the meantime. Need to have a look round and see what else needs doing at the same time (I know already that at least one tie rod gaiter is shot).
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#14 northpole

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Posted 27 September 2020 - 08:25 AM

man i spend most of this lockdown summer replacing parts on my daily... it runs like a new car especially since i sorted out that annoying rattle that the car had developed since last years mot... .



#15 NorthernPhil

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Posted 03 October 2020 - 02:10 PM

I didn't get lockdown... I'm classed as a critical worker. Yay.

 

Also... holy buggering christ! I just went to the Stealers to get prices for all the bolts I need, plus two rear top mounts, two tie rods, and two ball joints.... £540. Blimey.



#16 northpole

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Posted 04 October 2020 - 08:12 AM

I didn't get lockdown... I'm classed as a critical worker. Yay.

 

Also... holy buggering christ! I just went to the Stealers to get prices for all the bolts I need, plus two rear top mounts, two tie rods, and two ball joints.... £540. Blimey.

so how i replaced mine was i got Lemforder mounts of ECP (they are a hit and miss so open the boxes instore and see if the lot is centred if they are no problem if they aren't ask for another one... The bolts i just looked up the sizes on the online parts catalogue and ordered extra hardened ones in the exact same size of ebay... long story short i paid about 200 pounds for the lot. but this was at least 5 years ago so you should be able to get the bolts cheaper now. 

 

it is really annoying searching for the right bolts on ebay but you will find them a lot cheaper and when buying the extra hardened stuff you eliminate the need to replace them again anytime soon. 



#17 LR5V

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Posted 04 October 2020 - 01:07 PM

Bushes - my old Mk4 was fully Super Pro'd really good road feedback and no real hardness.

I have recent experience PSB bushes on a Mk5, with best part being price (Mk5 has 18 bushes - Super Pro kit for Mk5 is an eye watering £550 compared to PSB £160). Not done that many miles with the full kit installed, but they feel good.

Negatives are:

They use alloy metal inserts instead of stainless in Super Pro -but TBF OEM bushes have alloy inserts

The kits come with the inserts already in the bush, this became a real chore to remove all 18.

They have no internal diamond grease retention - just smooth flat internals.

I found the instructions to be pretty random to follow.

The Mk4 has a lot less bushes, if I was doing a Mk4 again with the knowledge I now have, I would still pay the extra for Super-pro over PSB.

 

ARB - get a kit do front and rear, I still say rear ARB made the biggest difference to how the Golf drove - I had an eibach kit, due to ease of install the rear got fitted a lot sooner than front, really stopped body roll and improved traction, final installed front and there were further improvements.

If you want to complicate your situation further look into upgrading to TT/R32 cast arms and alloy hubs Leon cupra R / S3  - if there is any possibility of going this route it would change choice of ARB kit from Golf to TT.



#18 NorthernPhil

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Posted 04 October 2020 - 07:03 PM

@northpole The £540 was a slight fib. The Stealers wanted over £725 for the bolts and other bits, as there are several bolts that you can only buy packs of 10 or 25 (when you only need 2 or 4). The £540 is getting most of the bolts from VAGBolts on ebay (cheaper and can actually buy the numbers I need), and the few bolts VAGBolts don't do and the critical components (rear top mounts, tie rod ends, and ball joints) from VW/SEAT (shopping around for the best prices). When I did this last time (putting the JOMs on) I think the total for the bolts came to about £150. Time and inflation FTL.

@LR5V Whiteline rear ARB is on the cards for later in the year/early next year. The front ARB is a 23mm already, so that's fine, and I can't go super low anyway so no driveshaft clash issue (if I go too low, I can't actually get to my house, because crappily designed speed bumps). Cast control arm setup I was looking at before ("back in the day", see my ancient build thread), but my situation has changed and I'm not in a position to do real crazy stuff anymore (  :( ) . Grease retention point you mention is a slight concern, but the cost of SuperPro all round was a bit too pricey. I'm hopeful it'll all be fine. Northpole seems pretty confident in them, and I've seen nothing bad on the web.



#19 northpole

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Posted 05 October 2020 - 06:24 AM

I actually bought my bolts from regular bolt manufacturers i just bought the extra hardened stuff all round it cut the cost down no end.... and yes he is right but once you get the old one out the new ones just push in... that is how i had mine done (yeah i had them done as i couldn't be bothered)  and i was seriously impressed with them, and i really regard them as a good upgrade since they do keep the comfort as well as the sportier LCR/S3/TT bushes but are slightly harder... ending in a seriously planted ride, that won't break your back or knock your teeth out. 







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