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Sump Removal Problem


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#1 Brazzerie

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Posted 18 January 2021 - 11:02 AM

Does anyone know anything about problems removing the sump on a Golf TDi 1.9? My garage have just called and said two of the bolts have sheared the where they screw in to and to replace that part they'll now have to remove the gearbox. I don't know what to make of what they're sayng to be honest. Any help anyone?




#2 northpole

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Posted 18 January 2021 - 03:20 PM

there are 2 bolts that are hard to get to and will sheer off if you don't use the right tools to get them off... long story short they'll need to loosen the gearbox to get to them to remove them... ( they don't need to remove the complete box though, just loosen the bolt s and split the box from the engine to make enough space..  now as you brought it in that isn't your problem as you have no way of knowing if they were already like that or they did it  if i was in your shoes my answer would be: " i'm not paying you extra as you took on the job, i will pay for the 2 new bolts needed but don't charge me extra working hours"... they'll probably will charge you those hours regardless unless you strongly object to it... 

 

it is how it is though there are 2 bolts on the sump that are covered by the gearboxes bell housing, you can get to them with the right tools without causing any damage to them, and they probably didn't try those tools...  as it means they'll have to put down their compressor powered tools and use hand tools, 9 out of 10 garages will try to use the airpower tools and in doing so mess up the bolts and than have to split the gearbox from the engine and use a bolt extractor to get them off... wouldn't be needed if they used the right tool in the first place....  on the other hand DIY-ers also mess up and sheer the bolts so if you've got the car from someone who tried to take them off himself he probably is the one that sheered them in the first place using the wrong tools because they don't have the right tools to get them off.

 

but as i said you have no way of knowing who caused it but they took on the job so that is their headache not yours, i hope you already had a price agreed with them so you can try and hold them to it.. if not they'll probably add 2 working hours to the bill and 4 times the price of the bolts ex VAT



#3 adam-

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Posted 18 January 2021 - 06:36 PM

The flywheel has notches that are 'supposed' to be aligned to allow those bolts to be easier to access.  I'd be slightly intoxicated if they stripped them but it's a tough call.  It's their fault for sure, but why is the sump being removed?  Smashed?


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#4 northpole

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Posted 18 January 2021 - 07:23 PM

The flywheel has notches that are 'supposed' to be aligned to allow those bolts to be easier to access.  I'd be slightly intoxicated if they stripped them but it's a tough call.  It's their fault for sure, but why is the sump being removed?  Smashed?

never aligned it for that no need as all you need is about 1cm clearance (actually 0.5cm is enough) meaning you can just slack the bolts of the gearbox and use a prybar, and voila enough space for the sheered bolts come out... but from what they told him this probably isn't what they'll do.. they'll just pull the box off... adding 2 hours to the job... 



#5 adam-

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Posted 18 January 2021 - 07:41 PM

never aligned it for that no need as all you need is about 1cm clearance (actually 0.5cm is enough) meaning you can just slack the bolts of the gearbox and use a prybar, and voila enough space for the sheered bolts come out... but from what they told him this probably isn't what they'll do.. they'll just pull the box off... adding 2 hours to the job... 

 

Or they've pryed(sp?) at the sump thinking all the bolts were out, snapping off half of the rear main seal and they now have to take the box off.


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#6 northpole

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Posted 19 January 2021 - 07:13 AM

Or they've pryed(sp?) at the sump thinking all the bolts were out, snapping off half of the rear main seal and they now have to take the box off.

I surely hope they didn't do that... but hey it is a possible scenario...

#7 superchickenn

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Posted 19 January 2021 - 11:39 AM

Or they've pryed(sp?) at the sump thinking all the bolts were out, snapping off half of the rear main seal and they now have to take the box off.

Ive seen this before where they pulled the sump down and didnt realise those 2 bolts were not fully backed out and snapped part of the main seal. 

 


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#8 Calico

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Posted 19 January 2021 - 01:57 PM

Id go and have a look then explain to them that its their fault i did mine with hand tools easy enough with out snapping them . If they create the problem its there job to fix



#9 Brazzerie

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Posted 19 January 2021 - 04:18 PM

northpole - You're probably right, either a pull off without removing or the wrong tool to remove. They said it's because the car is 17 years old, and some part or other that the rear bolts go in to need replacing. I've got no way of knowing the truth.



#10 Brazzerie

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Posted 19 January 2021 - 04:22 PM

adam- - I had an oil leak and they said I'd cracked the aluminium sump, probably on a speed bump or something.



#11 adam-

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Posted 19 January 2021 - 04:23 PM

 

  • @Mention - I had an oil leak and they said I'd cracked the aluminium sump, probably on a speed bump or something.

 

 

These usually leak at the top.  Also a cracked sump tends to just burst right open, not weap. 


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#12 Brazzerie

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Posted 19 January 2021 - 04:29 PM

northpole - they'll add more than 2 hours probably. I think I'll find another garage next time.



#13 Brazzerie

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Posted 19 January 2021 - 04:32 PM

adam- Having seen a video showing how hidden they are I bet you're right. I can't prove it though.



#14 Brazzerie

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Posted 19 January 2021 - 04:33 PM

superchickenn - I reckon you're spot on, but I can't prove it. They said it was because the car is 17 years old, and some part or other where the rear bolts screw into needs repacing so they have to take stuff out to do that.



#15 Brazzerie

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Posted 19 January 2021 - 04:37 PM

Calico - I'd struggle to work out what really happened if I had a look. They said it was caused by old parts on an old car, and I can't prove otherwise.



#16 Brazzerie

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Posted 19 January 2021 - 04:45 PM

adam- I'll have to put this one down to experience and pay them to get my car back in one piece. The good thing is there's enough doubt about the garage's version of events from all the posts here that I now know I need to find another garage to use from now on.



#17 northpole

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Posted 19 January 2021 - 06:22 PM

Next time find a vw specialist they know these things and never mess things like this up...

#18 Brazzerie

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Posted 20 January 2021 - 09:57 AM

I called in there this morning for an update. He showed me the old sump with the crack in it. He showed me a new plate about 5 inches wide he's had to get to replace the one in/near the gearbox that the two rear bolts screw in to. He said there are two plastic washers, one inside each screw hole in the plate, which are damaged and not doing their job properly, so the rear bolts won't tighten properly. Leaving it as-is would probably end up with a worse oil leak than I had before. He said he has to take the gearbox out to put the new plate in. Does that make sense?  



#19 northpole

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Posted 20 January 2021 - 12:57 PM

It does and it is because they ripped it off thinking they had all the bolts out...

#20 adam-

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Posted 20 January 2021 - 04:53 PM

That is the rear main seal I was telling you about.  There are no washers inside those bolt holes, they are not blind holes.  If the rear main seal is not cracked or damaged, I wouldn't have pulled the box fully if I could get to those bolts.  Hard to say without seeing it.


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#21 Brazzerie

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Posted 20 January 2021 - 05:21 PM

Oh well, don't let the same dog bite you twice so they say.



#22 Brazzerie

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Posted 21 January 2021 - 09:21 AM

Really appreciate all the help on this one guys



#23 northpole

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Posted 21 January 2021 - 09:47 AM

If I was in your shoes I would actually tell them you managed to rip off the crankshaft seal because you didn't remove the 2 hard to get to bolts... you'd better repair the damn car properly as I didn't give you a job to make it worse... or add more working hours to that job... f-ing amateurs!

#24 adam-

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Posted 21 January 2021 - 04:55 PM

Sometimes the sealant can just be solid and they might not have done a Golf before?...


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#25 Brazzerie

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Posted 22 January 2021 - 08:49 AM

The garage owner knows his stuff but I suspect it was one of his mechanics at fault, so they covered it up at my expense. The extra £250 on the bill is a write-off now sadly, but at least the car isn't! :-)



#26 northpole

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Posted 22 January 2021 - 09:50 AM

The garage owner knows his stuff but I suspect it was one of his mechanics at fault, so they covered it up at my expense. The extra £250 on the bill is a write-off now sadly, but at least the car isn't! :-)

I'm glad you got.your car back but the extra 250 + what you needed to pay in the first place... that is another golf mk4.... or an audi tt mk1 225 bhp... I would deffo loose my shot with them... but that is me if you are happy with them than by all means stay polite...

Next time they'll probably lower your bill





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