[Mk4 Golf] go low / air ride / anti roll bar / chassis notch / engine spacers / coilover thread - Suspension, Brakes and Chassis - uk-mkivs

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go low / air ride / anti roll bar / chassis notch / engine spacers / coilover thread



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#1 olethalb

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 04:34 AM

 As it seems the same ARB / air ride / frame laying / engine spacers / air ride / coilovers / chassis notch questions and threads are popping up more and more i'll try and cover it all in this thread with pics and info.


i will add to this when i get home and have access to my photo bucket, so please allow me to get it all down before posting [Y]


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lowering a mk4 / air ride / arb questions

 

https://uk-mkivs.net/...=engine spacers



#2 alex-atari

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 04:40 AM

Good man [Y]



#3 olethalb

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 05:32 AM

ENGINE SPACERS

 seems i did a how to on engine spacers a while ago on here on my S3 but is exact same deal as a mk4 / bora

i only recommend fitting 15mm as any more puts stress on dogbone / exhaust / hoses etc etc

and NEVER fit a dogbone spacer - if you catch that then it's bye bye gearbox

the spacers 15mm - obviously only 2 needed per car

enginespacers-211010001.jpg' alt='Posted Image' />

enginespacers-211010002.jpg' alt='Posted Image' />

enginespacers-211010003.jpg' alt='Posted Image' />

the bay

enginespacers-211010005.jpg' alt='Posted Image' />

cover removed

enginespacers-211010007.jpg' alt='Posted Image' />

filter off to reveal the mount

enginespacers-211010008.jpg' alt='Posted Image' />

one bolt can be seen in the above pic others are here

enginespacers-211010010.jpg' alt='Posted Image' />

enginespacers-211010011.jpg' alt='Posted Image' />

before you undo these, jack the car up and put a second jack or axle stand under the gearbox to support the weight. when the bolts are removed, raise the car or lower the engineto give you access to slide the mount out

enginespacers-211010013.jpg' alt='Posted Image' />

these are the parts all removed

enginespacers-211010012.jpg' alt='Posted Image' />

now you can slide the spacer into position

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk32/ollethalb/projects/enginespacers-211010014.jpg

and the post spacer

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk32/ollethalb/projects/enginespacers-211010017.jpg

you can now slot the mount back into position. i hadn't got longer bolts as i wanted to use genuine vag items, so i raided my bolt box and found the most suitable length bolts to use (these will be replaced with new items now i know what ones i need)

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk32/ollethalb/projects/enginespacers-211010015.jpg

now the mount can be bolted back in place - best to bolt to the body first then raise the box into position and then bolt the mount to the box.

 http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk32/ollethalb/projects/enginespacers-211010018.jpg

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk32/ollethalb/projects/enginespacers-211010019.jpg

onto the drivers side - again jack the car up and support the weight of the engine

cover off

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk32/ollethalb/projects/enginespacers-211010006.jpg

header tank out

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk32/ollethalb/projects/enginespacers-211010021.jpg

carbon canister out

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk32/ollethalb/projects/enginespacers-211010023.jpg

then pull the p/s tank res out of the way and undo the brace (lost a few pics here)

i didn't have to remove the mount completely, just loosen the bolts and raise the engine the slide the spacer in

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk32/ollethalb/projects/enginespacers-211010024.jpg

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk32/ollethalb/projects/enginespacers-211010025.jpg

i used the same longer vag bolts as used on the gearbox mount and bolted it down, then added the post spacer

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk32/ollethalb/projects/enginespacers-211010027.jpg

refitted the brace and p/s res

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk32/ollethalb/projects/enginespacers-211010028.jpg

refitted the carbon canister, header tank and both covers

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk32/ollethalb/projects/enginespacers-211010032.jpg

pic from before the spacers

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk32/ollethalb/projects/s3-211010001.jpg

and after

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk32/ollethalb/projects/enginespacers-211010029.jpg

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk32/ollethalb/projects/enginespacers-211010031.jpg

i'm happy with the results!

tools used were;

10mm, 13mm, 16mm, 18mm sockets 5mm allen key flat head and phillips screwdriver

1/2 ratchet and long extension bar, 3/4 ratchet and mid extension bar

cutters, pliers and a lever bar

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk32/ollethalb/projects/enginespacers-211010020.jpg


lowering a mk4 / air ride / arb questions

 

https://uk-mkivs.net/...=engine spacers


#4 trinistyle

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 06:48 AM

Booked marked [Y]



#5 Mcmallari

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 06:54 AM

subscribed!



#6 redflame

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 07:02 AM

This is gonna be an epic thread, subscribed [Y]



#7 Delta-Force

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 07:03 AM

 nice write up mate just wondering how much are the spacers to buy ?



#8 Pepperdub

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 07:11 AM

Nice one olly! great work as per usual ! need to get my engine spacers soon. 


11696733865_202f6e6aec_o.jpg


#9 outlawdesi

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 07:17 AM

Where's the best place to buy spacers?


thanks for the info


cheers



#10 Pepperdub

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 07:22 AM

Where's the best place to buy spacers?

thanks for the info

cheers

 

http://www.ebay.co.u...=item23204ec4b8


11696733865_202f6e6aec_o.jpg


#11 Delta-Force

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 07:29 AM

nice these are on my too do list now thanks for the link mate

#12 olethalb

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 12:54 PM

 CHASSIS NOTCH

notching the chassis to stop the driveshaft contacting it when driving low or to lay frame on aired mk4's

the notch is only needed on the drivers side, at what point you need one depends on the engine / gearbox and what coilovers you run. so the only sure way to know is if you are contacting the chassis with your shaft then it's time to get a notch.

Posted Image

best method i've found is remove the strut and driveshaft and in some cases the hub.

use a 76mm hole saw to cut a decent sized section out of the chassis, make sure the hole is in the right place.

Posted Image

then weld 3-4mm steel in the cut out, 76mm OD pipe is easiest to use, trim the steel so it's all flush with the edges. make sure the steel is seam welded inside and outside.

Posted Image

Posted Image

finish off with some seam sealer or underseal and the paint

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image


lowering a mk4 / air ride / arb questions

 

https://uk-mkivs.net/...=engine spacers


#13 lowry_uk

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 01:02 PM

Brill write up so far, This needs to be set in the HOW To's



#14 olethalb

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 01:39 PM

 LAYING FRAME - subframe / wishbones (getting the subframe to touch the floor to acheive maximum lowson air ride mk4's)

there are a couple of things that hold the car up and prevent it laying frame on the mk4

obviously as above a notch is needed but after that it's the subframe

when on stock wishbones and hubs the angle of the wishbone is quite severe when aired out

Posted Image

the wishbone contacts the subframe here

Posted Image

and here

Posted Image

to go lower you must trim these parts off although not advised as this part is right next to on of the main subframe bolts

the best option is to fit R32 / TT / S3 hubs and cast wishbones, the hubs have a greater distance between the driveshaft hole in the hub and where the ball joint bolts on.

TT

Posted Image

stock

Posted Image

 this reduces the angle of the wishbones and stops the contact between wishbone and subframe.

Posted Image

also the track rod ends bolt onto the underside of the hub so gives extra room between the track rod and the chassis

Posted Image

the TT set up also keeps camber closer to correct when aired out


lowering a mk4 / air ride / arb questions

 

https://uk-mkivs.net/...=engine spacers


#15 Stuart_tate41

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 02:46 PM

[Y][Y]



#16 olethalb

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 02:57 PM

 ANTI ROLL BARS

the mk4 front wheel drives have an arb that links the front wishbones via a pair of drop links, when lowering the mk4 / bora the angle of the drivers side shaft comes into contact with the ARB.

the problem is the ARB loops over the driveshaft

Posted Image

how low you can go before the shaft sits on the ARB angain depends on model, smaller engines have thinner shafts and thinner ARBs so can get a little lower before contact

FK released an ARB with larger hoops

Posted Image

unfortunately it only gave a little more clearance, as you lower the car the hoops spin back towards the rear of the car and the shaft rubs the front of the hoop, shorter droplinks can allow a little more room but still minimal

Posted Image

for a while it seemed prayers were answered when whiteline produced an anti roll bar that went under the shafts and used standard droplinks, just as everyone latched onto this, whiteline revised the design with an extra bend, this resulted in contact with the wishbones when low, people attempted to solve this with adjustable drop links to bring the ARBoff the wishbones but this brang it into contact with the driveshaft.

Posted Image

Posted Image

the TT / S3 / v64mo and R32 came with an ARB that goes under the shaft, the problem is they are slightly narrower than the normal ARB, you can join them to the wishbones with standard droplinks but they sit at an awkward angle, it still functions but is not ideal

 Posted Image

the best option is to use the TT droplinks

Posted Image

and connect them to the coilovers

Posted Image

unfortunately low end coilovers do not have the tab needed to bolt the droplinks to the coilover body -

jom - no tabs

Posted Image

weitecs show the tab

Posted Image


lowering a mk4 / air ride / arb questions

 

https://uk-mkivs.net/...=engine spacers


#17 mbgti01

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 03:07 PM

brilliant idea well done :) i have AP coilovers and think they have the tabs but im sure you know already :)



#18 olethalb

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 03:14 PM

 yes bud, AP have the tab [Y]


lowering a mk4 / air ride / arb questions

 

https://uk-mkivs.net/...=engine spacers


#19 olethalb

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 03:27 PM

 ill try and get to air ride at some point this week


lowering a mk4 / air ride / arb questions

 

https://uk-mkivs.net/...=engine spacers


#20 BoraDaz

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 03:47 PM

Great thread mate stops everyone asking the same questions over and over.



#21 hamidi

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 03:58 PM

dont forget that polo top mounts ladeedaa


you came out with it first too bish!


11162604053_9dc1ec7ebd_o.jpg

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#22 SI74

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 01:30 AM

First class post, helped me out with a few things. 



#23 MK4_WEZ

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 02:32 AM

Awesome guides [<:o)]



#24 robokid

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:04 AM

very good thread, great write up



#25 Tabs

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:11 AM

 Good thread Ollie - I'll move this to the Suspension forum and make it sticky [Y]



#26 olethalb

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 11:44 AM

 lovely Tabs

Top Mounts

mk4 topmounts consist of a rubber bushing and a bearing

shortly after Hamidi (Hamster) fitted those famous X5 19" wheels and was on a quest for arch to lip perfection, he's mentioned guys in the USA cut down the stock top mounts.

a few days later i was fitting new suspension to my mates mums polo 6n and noticed the similarity in the mounts, used the same bearing and almost the same diameter but was shallower.

i called the hamster and he said he'd be the guinea pig, order some and i'd fit them in and see how they faired

few days later he arrived with the new polo aka krispy kreme topmounts

Posted Image

Posted Image

arch gap pre polo mounts

Posted Image

arch gap after polo topmounts

Posted Image

part numbers are;

two x   6N0412319
two x   6N0412331A

these mounts can drop extra 10 - 15mm but has to be said they do not last as long as stock mk4 mounts but are cheap enough to replace once a year.

it's worth noting that recently PSI have produced polybush topmounts that lower by 10mm, i can't coment on the ride or feel of these as yet as i haven't fitted any.

 


lowering a mk4 / air ride / arb questions

 

https://uk-mkivs.net/...=engine spacers


#27 fatboy13

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 11:52 AM

[Y] great thread mate



#28 bakedbean

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 12:07 PM

 lovely Tabs

Top Mounts

mk4 topmounts consist of a rubber bushing and a bearing

shortly after Hamidi (Hamster) fitted those famous X5 19" wheels and was on a quest for arch to lip perfection, he's mentioned guys in the USA cut down the stock top mounts.

a few days later i was fitting new suspension to my mates mums polo 6n and noticed the similarity in the mounts, used the same bearing and almost the same diameter but was shallower.

i called the hamster and he said he'd be the guinea pig, order some and i'd fit them in and see how they faired

few days later he arrived with the new polo aka krispy kreme topmounts

arch gap pre polo mounts

arch gap after polo topmounts

part numbers are;

two x   6N0412319
two x   6N0412331A

these mounts can drop extra 10 - 15mm but has to be said they do not last as long as stock mk4 mounts but are cheap enough to replace once a year.

it's worth noting that recently PSI have produced polybush topmounts that lower by 10mm, i can't coment on the ride or feel of these as yet as i haven't fitted any.

 

audi 80,90 top mounts are a better safer option than the polo mounts and they fit the tower perfect unlike the polo mounts which can move about slightly[Y] i had 90 mounts on for over a year and when replacing they hadnt squashed as much as mk4 mounts usually do but still changed them you can also get different harshness ones some come with grey bottoms some with green and some are all blue and all 20pound but you need the audi 80,90 bearing and barrel nut as the mk4 nuts make the bearings go as they squash them hope this helps its been going for years on the audi sites etc [:D]



#29 bakedbean

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 12:11 PM

also forgot to mention they lower about 2mm more than polo mounts [Y] and the poly top mounts dont bother i had them fditted a week and put the 90 mounts back on as i got loads of vibes through the cabin only good for track imho[Y]



#30 bakedbean

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 12:13 PM

also forgot to mention they lower about 2mm more than polo mounts [Y] and the poly top mounts dont bother i had them fditted a week and put the 90 mounts back on as i got loads of vibes through the cabin only good for track imho[Y]







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